Bible in A Year: Episode 15

Intro • 00:00
Welcome to Read the Bible in a Year with Matt and Hannah, a weekly podcast from Fairfax Bible Church where we explore scripture together, uncovering its themes and design patterns. We’re glad you’re here. Now, here are your hosts, Matt and Hannah.

Matt • 00:15
And we are back. Episode 15. So we we skipped a week there. Sorry people. Hopefully it gave you a chance to catch up. Um, but we actually did have a very good reason for skipping. Hannah doesn’t know that I’m doing this, but Hannah, we had to miss a week because you had to take a little trip. Can you uh tell the people about your little trip?

Hannah • 00:35
Yeah, I took a little trip as you’re saying to uh Portland, Oregon to participate in my commencement ceremony.

Matt • 00:45
Yes!

Hannah • 00:46
Yes

Matt • 00:47
Congratulations.

Hannah • 00:49
Thank you.

Matt • 00:49
Yes, so you have finished. What degree is this?

Hannah • 00:53
So, well, I will finish in August.

Matt • 00:56
Okay, dude.

Hannah • 00:57
So I’m not technically graduated, I’m ceremonially graduated.

Matt • 01:00
That’s good enough for me.

Hannah • 01:02
But it’s a masters of arts in biblical and theological studies.

Matt • 01:06
Wow.

Hannah • 01:07
Yeah.

Matt • 01:08
You’re you know, smarty. I mean we already know you’re smarty pants because we’ve been listening to you on this podcast for a few months, uh and before that. But yes You work so hard for this, you deserve it. Congratulations.

Hannah • 01:21
Thanks. I just have one class left this summer, so I’m excited to be done. Yes, awesome.

Matt • 01:25
Awesome. Well done. Congratulations. Really, really excited for you. I know uh I know how hard you have worked on that and I know that you’ve put some other stuff kind of on the back burner in your life to be able to spend time on that. And now you get a little bit of your time back. Um but it’s awesome. Awesome. So excited for you. Thank you. Yeah, congratulations. Thanks. Yeah. So um we’re so that’s why we had to miss last week, but hopefully it uh gave you guys a chance to catch up. We’re still tracking on the day-by-day plan, so hopefully you’re still with us. And we’re going to do a little bit of a speed round catching us up from the previous episode. And then by the time we finish this, we should be up back up to speed and where we are in the reading plan. So A lot of chapters to cover today. Some of this will be a little bit overview, but we got some really cool themes and patterns and characters we want to call out for you. So uh before we get into that, Hannah, why don’t you catch us up? What’s the story so far?

Hannah • 02:18
Okay, so last time we discussed the line of kings in both Israel and Judah, tracing the downward spiral of chaos and disorder. Culminating in the Assyrian exile of the northern kingdom of Israel. And so this week, um, or I guess last week, we were wrapping up Second Kings. And then we read through Isaiah 44 this week. So at the end of 2 Kings, we actually see a couple good kings in Judah. Um, specifically Hezekiah and Josiah, which we’ll talk a little bit about. Uh, but because of the sins of the evil kings and the nation as a whole, Judah is defeated by Babylon and brought out to exile as well. And so after that, we started the book of Isaiah. And these timelines overlap. Between the end of Second Kings and Isaiah’s prophetic mission. So that was cool to see some of that overlap and those links between the two books. And Isaiah uh his role is to call out Israel and its leaders for violating the covenant agreements and to call them to repentance, back into restored relationship with the Lord. But Israel does not heed these warnings. They don’t turn from their sin. And so the book of Isaiah is full of prophetic and poetic warnings of their coming. disaster and defeat and exile. And um this is all the judgment that the Lord is bringing on Israel and Judah, using the nations of Assyria and Babylon. But Assyria and Babylon are wicked nations themselves. So after the Lord uses them as instruments of his judgment, He will also bring judgment upon those nations. Yeah. Um, but good news is that judgment does not have the last word. And so throughout Isaiah, we see this promise of the messianic hope. Which reiterates the Lord’s promise that a king from the line of David is gonna come to r restore that blessing to all nations through the nation of Israel So there’s a lot of really cool imagery around this messianic restoration. We’ll talk about a few of those images, like the new Exodus and the New Eden. And so then towards the end of our reading this week, after chapter 40 in Isaiah, the book is actually written from the perspective after the Babylonian exile. And so towards the end of chapters 41 through 44, we see this like courtroom scene where Israel is accusing God for neglecting them. But the Lord responds by describing his great wisdom and majesty and power that goes far beyond human understanding, and he reiterates his promises to redeem and restore his people. demonstrating how he’s been faithful to them throughout their whole existence.

Matt • 05:19
Yeah.

Hannah • 05:20
Yeah.

Matt • 05:21
I am so happy to be in Isaiah. I I I think it’s a wonderful book. I know uh you know we talked about how Judges is a pretty rough book and um you know the Kings uh can be a pretty rough book. You you mentioned how first and second kings are are tough reads for you. Yeah. Um Isaiah, it’s a really different book than what we’ve read read so far. And we’ll we’ll talk about that when we get into the role of the prophet and reading prophetic literature. Um, but I love the shift to poetry and so much imagery. Um I love the lyrical bit about and os also Isaiah’s like really long. It’s sixty-six chapter so you really get to sink your teeth into this one, spend a lot of time in it. So it’s not just reading this king was good, this king was bad. Yeah, so I really like it. We’ll get more into that here in a little bit. But why don’t we finish up the Run of King? So kind of as we are tracking toward the end of Second Kings here, sort of three last kings and then uh a little bit of change. Uh and they’re actually really Interesting that the first king uh and Isaiah is actually part of his story. This is where we meet Isaiah in the story is uh a man named Hezekiah. Hezekiah, pretty good king. Very different than what the kings that we have seen so far in first and second kings. Yeah. Um yeah, what what’s kind of like big takeaways from Hezekiah for you?

Hannah • 06:41
Well, the author, you know, explicitly says that Hezekiah did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, um, according to all that David had done. He removed the the high places, which are where um sacrifices were brought to false gods. He broke the idols. Um one interesting note that was kind of new to me is said that he broke the bronze serpent that Moses had made.

Matt • 07:10
Yeah. I know I know I’d seen that before, but I know that that struck out.

Hannah • 07:14
Yeah. Yeah, that that Israel started uh making offerings to that bronze serpent. Yeah. And that is so um such a thing in in the story of the Bible, but also You know, we talked about idols in our last um podcast, but we start to worship the created things. instead of the creator or the the symbol, the bronze serpent was a symbol of God’s life-giving and healing power rather than serving the healer itself. the life giver himself, they start worshipping this symbol of his power.

Matt • 07:52
Yeah.

Hannah • 07:53
Yeah.

Matt • 07:54
Yeah, I mean you could probably go down millions of rabbit holes about that. Uh Yeah, ’cause I I think s there’s some churches um that you make use of like icons and and pictures and things like that. And um you know, there’s some of that that you see with that. I don’t want to get too finger pointy about that whole thing uh in this context, but it’s it w you you get a picture of, yeah, like when we when we sort of we see a representation of God in some way and it probably starts as a good thing and then but it gets twisted and it becomes the thing instead of pointing us. to the thing, which is God and his character and his and his mercy and his rescue and his salvation. So yeah, it’s just it’s just this weird trap. So it’s really interesting to see Hezekiah say, yes, we have this thing. It’s a huge part of our story, but it’s now it’s a problem and it needs to go. It’s got to be destroyed. Yeah, it’s a really interesting moment. Yeah.

Hannah • 08:47
Yeah. I mean, we could even say that about like modern medicine. I think the Lord provides us with. modern medicine, you know. Okay. Um, but we start to view medicine in and of itself as the life-giving you know, forgetting that it’s really the Lord using those things as instruments to give us relief and healing and life. Um yeah. So we forget who’s really behind. these things that are good and life-giving for us.

Matt • 09:18
Yeah. Yeah. Uh and then the other thing that I think is pretty well, there’s I mean, I think Hezekiah is an a really interesting figure. I actually wish the chapters about him were a little bit longer. Um I would love to know more about his story. But We see the showdown with Assyria and Babylon and his, you know, when he’s confronted with this, yeah, there’s a little bit of sort of political maneuvering, but in in a really, really dramatic scene, he He prays and he just says, Lord, this is your people. We’re trusting you to do this. We’re helpless here. If if we try and do this militarily, we’re gonna get squashed like bugs. But Hear us, hear our prayer, and the Lord answers that prayer, and it’s it’s it’s a really beautiful chapter.

Hannah • 09:59
Mm-hmm Yeah, um the other thing that you pointed out in the notes was a comment that Catherine Castles made.

Matt • 10:07
Yeah.

Hannah • 10:08
Gold Star.

Matt • 10:09
Gold Star Catherine.

Hannah • 10:11
And this was about a Syria uh misunderstanding that when Hezekiah destroyed the high places and the false altars, um that they were like, How can you worship your God? You know, they totally didn’t understand that those were not where Yahweh wanted to be worshipped. Um the temple alone was where he was supposed to be worshipped. I think um this is maybe something that might be helpful because it’s something I didn’t know. But the high places were Um, like some of Israel and Judah would actually bring sacrifices or offerings to give to the Lord at these high places. They’re like, you know, mountains or these other altars. But surrounding nations would also bring their offerings to the same places, so using those high places to bring offerings to the Lord tended to uh make Israel fall into false worship because they would confuse their offerings with their surrounding nations. So Assyria didn’t understand that.

Matt • 11:18
Yeah. And it’s a little bit the high places are a little bit of like, well, isn’t it a good thing? I’m sacrificing to the Lord. How can this be wrong? It’s very much like the attitude of Saul, where he’s like, Look, I’m I’m sacrificing. How can how can this be wrong? But oh you know, and Samuel even says to him, Obedience is better than sacrifice. So Doing even a so-called good thing, but different from the way that God prescribes to us that He would want us to do that, that is sinful and it and we see why it’s sinful because it can be a trap and it can lead us into bad practices and false witness. So yeah. So the high places are bad. It was a good thing that Hezekiah got rid of them. Uh and then Hezekiah has a weird moment. Um where the uh delegation comes from Babylon. And it’s a little bit of like a uh hint of what’s to come here. We know that as the reader, but I guess maybe Hezekiah didn’t know that in the moment. Uh but this delegation from Babylon comes. He shows them around. He’s like, check out all the treasures we have. Check out everything that we got. And Isaiah is like, well, you know, this is not gonna work out so well because it’s you know, Babylon’s gonna eventually take you over and uh and and move us into exile. And Hezekiah’s like, Oh, okay. Yeah. That’s gonna happen like fifty years in the future, so it’s not my problem. That’s that’s good. There’ll be peace in my day, so I’m totally okay with this. Yeah. That’s kind of not cool, Hezekiah. What are you doing there?

Hannah • 12:43
Yeah. Well, I think you know, so far Hezekiah has been kind of portrayed as this like new David potentially messianic figure. But we always see when someone’s portrayed like that that they have a moment of failure or like, oh, they don’t quite measure up. So I think that might be Hezekiah’s. uh point of failure there.

Matt • 13:04
Yeah. Yeah, and Casey Maddox put something in the chat about like he just really despises that kind of attitude. Like If it’s easy for me and you know future generations don’t have you know I I don’t have to worry about people dealing with the consequences of this. So I’m just gonna skate through this. Yeah. And uh have to share say I sh I share that opinion. Yeah. So winds down for Hezekiah. Pretty good king, uh, and an interesting story, and definitely an interesting place in Israel’s history. And then he is succeeded by Manasseh. Not Manassas, Manasseh who’s described as the worst king yet.

Hannah • 13:40
Yeah.

Matt • 13:42
Yeah. So all the things that Hezekiah did, Manasseh just totally undoes. So we’re we’re back in the We’re back with the high places, we’re back with the idol worship in the temple, we’re back with the yucky practices.

Hannah • 13:55
Yeah, child sacrifice.

Matt • 13:57
Ooh, yeah, brutal. Brutal. Uh and so Manasseh uh rolls off the scene and then he is succeeded by Josiah, who’s like who’s like Five years old when he becomes king?

Hannah • 14:10
Yeah, something like very young.

Matt • 14:12
Super duper young. Wow. Talk about a lot of responsibility at a young age. Um and he’s pretty good. Even as a young king. I mean by the time there’s like a regent and you know by the time he actually like is doing the job he’s a little bit older, but um pretty good. Like somebody hands him the uh the Torah scroll and he actually tears his clothes because he’s like, oh, we have not been doing these things. The Lord’s judgment is gonna come upon us. So he gets back into Torah reading and instructions. So that’s good.

Hannah • 14:45
Yep.

Matt • 14:45
Um he sees that the temple is repaired. He actually raises money to fix up the temple. It’s been a while, and you know You have a house for a little bit, you gotta repair some shingles and you know paint a little bit and that. So he you know he’s like, okay, yeah, let’s let’s get the temple back up to speed. So yeah, pretty good.

Hannah • 15:05
Yep.

Matt • 15:07
Oh go ahead.

Hannah • 15:08
Uh I was just gonna add on that he leads some religious reform after reading the Torah. So um he again burns down all of the idols, the high places that Manasseh re-instituted. They practice the Passover for the first time. There is that since the time of the judges.

Matt • 15:28
Yeah. Well yeah, it’s kind of interesting. So if we read that on its face, David never practiced Passover?

Hannah • 15:35
Yeah.

Matt • 15:36
Solomon never Solomon never practiced the Passover?

Hannah • 15:40
Sounds like that.

Matt • 15:41
Yeah, that’s really interesting. I wonder why the I wonder what I wonder why they wouldn’t have done that. Yeah. I just opened a loop that I’m not gonna close for the people. Sorry everyone. Somebody’s gonna send me like a 30-page scholarly article about this now. And I will read it. I am here for it, people. But yeah, it’s curious. Like What were you doing all those years, if not sacrificing Passover? It’s like the w one of like the do this on this day every year, have this feast. Like who doesn’t want to throw a party every year?

Hannah • 16:14
Yeah.

Matt • 16:15
I mean we talked about like the rhythm of feast and how like it’s it’s for your good. It’s for our good. Like, hey, set aside this time, remember what God did for you, throw a big party, eat a good meal. What’s the problem? I don’t understand. Alright, so then the exile comes. There’s one last king, and his name is uh let’s see if I can get the don’t mock me for the pronunciation here. Yehoyakin.

Hannah • 16:43
Oh, that was good. That was a good like kind of Hebrew-esque pronunciation.

Matt • 16:47
Okay. Would it be more like yohoyechin?

Hannah • 16:49
Yes, yeah.

Matt • 16:50
Okay. That’s hard. I can’t do that.

Hannah • 16:54
Yeah, but you made the Y sound instead of the J, so that’s uh more of a Hebrew pronunciation.

Matt • 16:59
Yeah. So he is part of the crew that gets exiled to Babylon. So the Babylonians come and tear down the temple, burn down Jerusalem, take over Judah And they take sort of the upper class, like the um aristocracy and the teachers, they take them all to Babylon. Um, but then they leave sort of the lower classes, like they leave the poor people behind to like take care of the fields or whatever like that. So the the king is exiled over to Babylon and he’s in prison for a little bit, he w but then he’s actually removed from prison And put back into royal clothes. Now he’s not made king, but he’s allowed to sit at the table of the king of Babylon for the rest of his days. And then the book ends. So it’s just kind of like this open loop. But it’s kind of interesting. I think in the Bible Project uh video does a real good job of explaining this. It’s sort of keeping the story of the line of David open. So these kings, if they’re not going to be the ones that we’re looking for, but knowing that the Messiah and the one who is to come, the snake killer, is going to come from this line, we know that the line is still open. I guess is is what we’re supposed to read from that.

Hannah • 18:12
Yeah, the Lord hasn’t abandoned his messianic promise.

Matt • 18:17
Yeah. And then that is that’s essentially the end of the narrative part of the uh of the Hebrew Bible. We’re gonna get some narration in it because we’re gonna go through Esther and in some of those things. But in terms of the arc of the story of the the people of the family of Abraham, the nation of Israel, this is essentially where things get left uh until we turn over to the New Testament. We we’ve essentially seen what the narrative is. They were called out uh of Egypt. Uh you know, they establish themselves in the promised land. They establish a king even, but they’re really up and down. They don’t follow the Torah. They do not obey Yahweh. They uh give themselves over to idols and eventually they’re invaded by two different parties and exiled and so now we really the theme really shifts uh because now it’s really about what is it like to be a people in exile and what is it like to wait for this promised one to come. um when we don’t even really live in our land anymore. So we’re waiting for this king, but we’re barely even a people at this point. So even if the king comes What’s supposed to happen because we’re a mess. Yeah. So in in our reading plan, we turn over to Isaiah Yeah. So uh now Isaiah’s a little bit different than what we’ve read before. So I think you made the good point that we should probably just do a little bit of a refresh here because reading this book is gonna be a different uh way of reading and a different experience than most of the reading that we’ve done up unto this point. So tell the people what you mean by that. What’s what’s kind of the role of the prophet and kind of what’s happening in this book that we should be aware of.

Hannah • 20:03
Yeah, well we’ve are we’ve encountered a few prophets already, but s like specifically prophetic books. This is our first like real one. Um So the the Bible project uses this term that the the prophet plays this role of covenant watchdog, which is kind of a fun term.

Matt • 20:27
Yeah.

Hannah • 20:28
Um I think we often think of profits as like people who are predicting the future. Yeah. But that’s not actually really the case. They do give warnings about, you know, what the Lord tells them is going to happen in the future. But their primary role is to uh call out sin and failure to uphold the covenant. and to call them back into that covenant relationship. Um and so giving those warnings of if you don’t repent This is what the Lord says is gonna happen. So that’s kind of that like future prediction part of it. But the primary role is calling them out and calling them back. So calling them out for for violating the covenants and calling them back into repentance. Now in terms of like the the text, it’s mostly poetic

Matt • 21:23
Yeah.

Hannah • 21:23
So we see a big amounts of imagery, a lot of cosmic language. Um Some of this feels very hyperbolic because of the level of imagery or symbolism where it can feel kind of heavy reading like about this judgment of destruction and desolation and all of that. Though we do have to remember that it’s mostly poetic.

Matt • 21:49
Yeah.

Hannah • 21:50
So considering all of those symbols and images will help us to understand it.

Matt • 21:55
Yeah. Yeah, so I love biblical poetry. Um, and I I love all the hyperbole. I mean, I love poetry and I love song, you know, music and songs, and I especially love like Um, you know, some of my favorite songwriters tend to be very visual. Um, I love Bob Dylan stuff from the sixties and John Lennon from the sixties. Uh so you know that the thing, you know, uh Bob Dylan famously had a song about, uh it’s called A Hard Rain’s Gonna Fall. And it’s really about just um, you know, he’s speaking about the civil rights movement and he’s saying, like, look, we’re we’re treating this entire group of people uh in ways that are terrible. And if we don’t think there’s consequence to it, then um then we’re we’re fools. You know, you just can’t treat huge groups of people in the way that African Americans are treated in our country and not expect there to be consequences. It’s kind of what especially that song, uh it’s what some of those are about. Although he’s very famous because somebody asked him, he’s like, are you Uh, you know, is this about like nuclear rain? Is this about this is in the days where people are concerned like nuclear war is gonna start tomorrow? He’s like, it doesn’t say nuclear rain, it says a hard rain. Hard rain’s gonna fall. So yeah, I don’t know. Bob Dylan, he’s funny. Anyway, but yeah, he’s very into sort of like um actually he uses scripture better than most Christian songwriters at this point, but he um Yeah, he uses a lot of imagery like that. He loves to grab phrases. In fact, one of the reasons I like Isaiah right um I Bob Dylan actually steals from the book of Isaiah a lot. Actually, one day this week has a song called Shelter from the Storm. I think it’s on an album he did in the 70s. This is turning into a Bob Dylan podcast now. We’re shifting the focus. I’m just going to talk about Bob Dylan. He has a song uh from one of his seventies albums called Blood on the Tracks called Shelter from the Storm. And so when I read that this week, I was like, Is that what what’s happening here? So I googled, sure enough, he he based shell uh Shelter from the Storm from that passage in Isaiah. So yeah, so if you like music and especially if you like like songwriters, then Isaiah’s gonna be your jam and Jeremiah’s gonna be your jam and and some of the old testament uh prophets are gonna be your jam. If that’s not the way you like kind of engage with literature, entertainment, you may have to uh you know girt up for this next next few months here. But but for people like me, this is my GM. I love it. So. Yeah. I love all the garden imagery. I love all the yeah, I love all the water and trees and dripping and yeah, love it. Here for it. Yeah. So Isaiah, uh a couple big themes, and I know there’s one especially you want to tease out, and it’s kind of holding this tension. or kind of keeping proper balance between the idea of judgment, which is pretty easy to see, but also hope. Um so I know that this is something you wanted to call out. Tell us a little bit more what you’re seeing and then um maybe some some key passages that we should take a take a look at. And then as we’re going through r the rest of the book, what we should what uh what should we keep our eyes open for

Hannah • 24:55
Yeah. So judgment is probably a very clear theme in this book. Um based on all of the language of destruction and the warnings about being uh defeated by these nations that are going to carry them off into exile. And I think this often can make us feel a little overwhelmed, and we we see that big image of like, this is the angry God of the Old Testament. Um, but a couple things that maybe we could talk about that I think help maybe mellow that view out a little bit. Okay. Um, so first, um God is a holy God and he um wants to refine Israel So to there’s uh some language imagery about burning off the impurities.

Matt • 25:54
Oh yeah.

Hannah • 25:55
So refining Israel because his goal is to restore them. But um judgment needs to come before that restoration. And so one his from a cosmic level, there’s some cosmic imagery in here that is like um bringing this specific historical event into view of the big picture of the Bible of God wanting to ultimately defeat evil at its source. And there, did you see some of the snake language? Actually there’s like a whole video this week about one of the Hebrew words for um the snake sea monster. Yeah. Um, that was when we read chapter 27 of Isaiah. So chapter 27 talks about Leviathan, which is this sea serpent, um which is an ancient symbol of chaos and destruction. And so that idea brings in this goal of part of God’s purpose is to defeat evil ultimately at its source. And so one part of that is getting rid of the evil within Israel itself, within his own people. And there’s also a lot of language in here about um God’s wisdom and his purposes being far above our own understanding. And so Especially Israel would have thought you’re gonna use Assyria and Babylon, these wicked nations, to come defeat us. Like that doesn’t make sense from their perspective. Um, but he has this bigger picture and purpose and uh chapter 29, verse 16 says about God’s wisdom Do you think that the potter is the same as the clay? So using these this symbolism of the potter molding his clay. And what or uh how can what is made say about its maker? He didn’t make me. How can what is formed say about the one who formed it? He doesn’t understand what he’s doing.

Matt • 28:03
Yeah

Hannah • 28:04
Yeah, so like what what right do humans have to say this is a terrible plan, God? You know?

Matt • 28:14
Yeah, you know, it’s so interesting. I you know Uh probably, I don’t know, 10, 15 years ago, there was this uh kind of movement called the New Atheists. I don’t know if you remember. Uh you m probably you might have been high school, so you might not have had your radar turned on for all this. But um There’s a lot of guys out of the UK and I’m I’m I’m seeing faces, but I’m blanking on names uh now. Um oh I’d have to look them up. But but basically it was a run of people, uh and some of it was uh kind of birthed out of the response of the early two thousands with uh Islamic fa um fanatical Islam. And so a lot of people were like, you know, all radical religion is a big problem in the world and they sort of lumped them all together and sort of put Christianity with that. Um, and so they got very uh like in your face about not just there is no God, but if there were a God I’ve got a thing or two to tell him. I’ve got a bone to pick with him and I’m gonna like debate him and take him down and I’m gonna tell him all the ways that he is angry. And I just remember seeing some of these interviews and and reading some of these things. And I was like, oh I mean, you’re actually bringing up really interesting points about the injustice that we see in the world and uh I sort of take your point for some of these things, but man, I don’t I w I would I would be really careful here because I just don’t think you’re gonna shake a finger at God. Yeah I I think the because I Isaiah actually has a moment like this in chapter six where he actually encounters God in person. Um, and we don’t know enough about Isaiah at this point to know if he’s going in there with a bone to pick or, you know, a s um you know a list of complaints or something like that. But he is immediately overwhelmed. And his response is, woe is me, for I’m a man with unclean lips, and I come from a people with unclean lips. And he he thinks he’s dead. He thinks he’s dead to rights because he’s standing in the presence of this amazing th being that barely makes any sense to him, that is holy and radiant and uh glorious and Yeah, so some of our new atheist uh friends, I and some of them have died uh since then. I was like, oh boy, that I hope they had a chance to repent a little bit because that arrogance is not going to serve them well when they meet a righteous holy God.

Hannah • 30:36
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, we can’t understand his purposes even when they seem bad to us. Yeah. And and the other thing is we’ve talked a lot about the character of God being slow to anger. Yeah. And yes, God is angry here, but like how long did it take him to get to this point? Centuries. We’ve We’ve been re we’re on like day a hundred and fourteen of our reading plan. Yeah. And now we see exile, right? And but they’ve Israel’s been messing up this whole time. They’ve been um straying from the covenant.

Matt • 31:10
This is like five hundred years of history.

Hannah • 31:12
Yes, right

Matt • 31:13
This is like two Americas.

Hannah • 31:15
Ugh, yeah.

Matt • 31:16
I mean we’re celebrating America’s two hundred fiftieth anniversary this year, the year of our Lord two thousand twenty-six. Uh it’s two times that that Israel has existed, roughly, uh, by the time we get to this moment. So two Americas before God is like, okay, let’s let’s start dealing with some things here.

Hannah • 31:34
Yeah. And the other thing is the offer for repentance is always available.

Matt • 31:40
Yeah.

Hannah • 31:41
Like even at this point, you know, Isaiah’s calling them back to repent. And they don’t do it. I, you know, if they did, I would expect, I don’t know, maybe the Lord has purposes I don’t understand, but I would expect that he would accept their repentance and have mercy on them. In uh chapter thirty, verse eighteen, it says, Therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you. Therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you, for the Lord is a God of justice. Blessed are those who wait for him.

Matt • 32:14
It’s unbelievable. It’s like such a striking moment in the text when you see that. Yeah. And it’s I mean, he’s ’cause he could just go on and on and on about the ways that Israel has failed and turned from him and chased after other so-called gods and idols. And even when he corrects them and uh even when he is um intercedes for them and destroys their enemies and and puts himself against people who seek out they they turn and turn and turn and turn and yet he’s just waiting to be gracious to you. He’s waiting to restore you. He’s waiting to forgive you. You know, uh elsewhere in scripture uh describes God as ready to forgive. That’s and that phrase just blows me away. He’s ready. He’s just waiting for us. He’s just waiting for us to be serious about this, to repent and humble ourselves before him. He’s I sort of going back to uh an idea that we talked about a couple episodes ago, this kind of idea of grace, and I’m I’m coming to think of this as like this is all God’s idea. He wants this. He wants relationship with us for all of our rebellion and nonsense. He wants this. And look at all the things that he has put. I mean Uh never mind Israel and all the things. Me, look at all the things he’s put up with with me with all of my silliness and foolishness and rebellion and thinking I’m so smart and thinking I have it all figured out that I don’t really need him. I’m gonna give him lip service, of course, but I don’t really need him. I can figure this out. Look at how patient he’s been with me. Look at how he’s been ready to forgive me. Um it’s yeah, he’s you could not make him up. This is actually one of the things that I um When I talk to people uh and I share about Jesus, I’m like one of the things that strikes me about the Christian faith is you would not draw this up. Like if we were gonna invent a relation a religion as humans, this is not the god you would invent. He he just does not follow human logic. He doesn’t follow human patterns. um you know uh the human pattern is okay, well you got me, well now I’m gonna get you. Or you’re you know, we’re gonna keep this sort of even Stephen. It’s gonna be tit for tat. We’re gonna match this. And this God is like I’m not doing that. We could do that, but it’s not really great for you if we do that because I’ll win. But I I wanna be I wanna be in a relationship with you. I want to hang out with you. I want you in my family. I want you part of my tribe. I want you on my team here. Um there’s just not another figure in any human invented literature, storytelling, anything that is like the God of the Bible.

Hannah • 35:07
Yeah.

Matt • 35:10
We we could not make him up. So yeah, that wonderful balance. Yeah, there certainly is judgment. Uh and although the judgment, as you say, is in its less punishment. Uh in Isaiah, and it’s more that idea of refinement, purification, cleaning up. Um yeah, it’s brutal, but uh it’s it’s not um r retributive, is that the right word? Yeah, retributive. Yeah. You say it better. You say so many things better than I do. Yeah, but it’s it’s not one of these things where he’s just punish punishing us because he takes joy in punishing us. You know, he is dealing with our sin so that we can get to the other side of it and be back in relationship with him.

Hannah • 35:57
Yeah.

Matt • 35:58
So that hopes. So tell us more about the the garden imagery and the exodus connections.

Hannah • 36:05
Yeah, yeah. So this Hope is often presented with those two sets of imagery. So let’s start with the garden or the New Eden imagery. So um I’ll just like list a few things. I mean there’s a time, I’m sure I’m missed a ton because it’s all throughout these chapters we see this, but I’ll just like list a few. Um so the hope for the Davidic king is described as light breaking through the darkness in chapter nine. Which is like what we saw in on day one of creation.

Matt • 36:37
Oh yeah.

Hannah • 36:38
Yeah. Um okay, and then more we have more light imagery. This is um Well actually, okay, that’s the same. I’m just I wrote it out. So uh in chapter nine verses two through seven roughly. Um so the people who walked in darkness have seen a great light. Those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness on them has light shone. And then this is the same passage where we see for unto us a child is born. For to us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. So we are specifically seeing that that hope for the uh king, the messianic king, who will be born as a child. Who is born to us. And that’s connected with light breaking through the darkness. So that’s sum of some Eden creation, recreation, new creation language.

Matt • 37:46
Outside the month of December.

Hannah • 37:48
Maybe. Yes, this is a great Christmas passage. Um okay, uh chapter eleven, verses six through eight talk about all of these animals dwelling together in peace. So the wolf dwelling with the lamb, the leopard laying down with the young goat, the calf and the lion, and um then with also with children. So the nursing child playing over the hole of the cobra. Mm-hmm. That’s concerning. Oh hello. Yeah, that’s a snake. Yeah. And and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den. So another snake. So uh yeah.

Matt • 38:36
So this is not a zoo.

Hannah • 38:40
Uh I don’t think these animals are caged, of course.

Matt • 38:44
Yeah, so I think my position of God doesn’t like zoos. I think that still still holds.

Hannah • 38:48
Right, right. Yeah, but that language about uh humans and animals dwelling together in peace, including these wild animals and snake-like animals dwelling at peace with humans is very Garden of Eden.

Matt • 39:04
Yeah.

Hannah • 39:05
Okay, and then uh let’s do one more. Um chapter thirty-two, verses fourteen to seventeen. It’s uh initially talking about this desolation in Israel, but then it says this will um Israel will be desolate until the spirit from on high is poured out on us. Then the desert will become an orchard and the orchard Will be like a forest. And it describes this place being filled with justice and righteousness and peace. And so the Garden of Eden is actually an orchard. Because it’s full of trees. You know, that’s how it’s described in chapter Genesis 2. Um so an orchard and a forest, that’s very Garden of Eden, desert into garden.

Matt • 39:53
Yeah.

Hannah • 39:54
Yeah.

Matt • 39:56
Yeah, I like these are just a few examples. There’s it’s like on every page. I think I I think I uh share this. There’s a book I read probably about Two, three years, well, maybe a little bit longer. I think it’s called reforesting faith. And it’s basically about the role of trees in the Bible. And one of the things the guy says if if you if you highlight in green every time you see a tree or a plant. uh in the garden, you’ll be surprised at how quickly your Bible is just full of green. So I started doing that in my Bible app and Isaiah is one of the first uh books where there’s just a lot of green. A lot of green highlights. Yeah, because everything is a a tree, a garden, a fruit, uh, this, uh that. Yeah, so it’s just it’s lush. There’s just so much happening here.

Hannah • 40:41
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And actually in Isaiah chapter one, um, verses twenty-nine through thirty talk about uh false Eden. Like uh using garden imagery to describe uh people who forsake the Lord. Um it says they will be ashamed of the oaks that they desired. They will blush for the gardens that they have chosen. For you shall be like an oak whose leaf withers like a garden without water.

Matt • 41:11
Oh.

Hannah • 41:11
It’s like a desolate garden if it’s a garden, an Eden of your own making.

Matt • 41:16
Little Psalm One action there.

Hannah • 41:18
Yeah, opposite of Psalm One.

Matt • 41:19
Yeah.

Hannah • 41:20
Yeah. Yep.

Matt • 41:21
Yeah. And I also love how it’s not even just a garden, but now it’s a garden that’s on a mountain.

Hannah • 41:27
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 41:27
Because especially in chapter two he starts talking about the mountain of the Lord, which I think generally we’re supposed to understand being like Jerusalem in that area, but seems like he’s making the idea a little bit bigger that he’s elevating that concept a little bit.

Hannah • 41:40
Yeah, we see the name Zion used throughout uh Isaiah. And Zion is referring to the mountain of Jerusalem, but from a prophetic perspective. So Zion is the prophetic name for uh the the mountain of Jerusalem, the new Jerusalem.

Matt • 41:58
Yeah. Yeah. And I I love how it’s kind of really doubling down on this idea that mountains are kind of kind of moving earth closer to heaven. So this this heaven and earth space. So mountains are to you know tend to be kind of rocky, a little bit rugged, but this is like talking about a garden mountain. So an elevated place. close to God but lush and green and life-giving. So I I I love the way that Isaiah plays with that imagery. Um so there’s a lot of garden imagery. Uh and so if if you got a green highlighter, make use of it here. Have some fun. But you’ve pointed out to me there’s also a lot of Exodus imagery, a lot of hyperlinks back to those stories.

Hannah • 42:41
Yes. So in chapter four, we see a description about the cloud leading by day and the fire by night. Which is straight from the story of the Exodus. Um chapter eleven, verse fifteen. says that the Lord would will utterly destroy the tongue of the sea of Egypt, and will wave his hand over the river with his scorching breath, will strike it into seven channels, he will lead the people across in sandals. Which is like uh when the Lord led Israel uh through the Red Sea on dry ground. Very similar imagery there. Uh chapter 35 has some of this language. Um Let’s see, we’ve got for waters break forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert. So that’s actually a little bit of Eden imagery there, too. Um here we go. And a highway shall be there, and it shall be called the way of holiness. The unclean shall not pass over it. It shall belong to those who walk on the way. And then it says a little bit later, and the ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to Zion with singing. So this highway, there’s a few times where that word is used, like a highway through the wilderness that leads the people back. To back from exile, back to the promised land. And that’s all uh Exodus type language, leading them out of where they were enslaved and back to the promised land.

Matt • 44:23
Oh yeah, it’s really interesting. Yeah, there’s uh I think this is Isaiah’s one of those books where we really see a lot of the hyperlinks starting to come together and really pop. So so many connections back to Genesis one, two, and three, as you describe so many connections back to the exostoric. Kind of the the idea of the exile in the first place is kind of a callback to the Exodus story. I mean Moses prophesied that this was going to happen, uh, especially in Deuteronomy when he’s giving the warnings. And so a lot of this you you can sort of see what the authors are doing, you know, seeing how remember how Moses said, if you choose life, Good things are gonna happen. If you choose Ra not good, uh these things are gonna happen. Look at look at your choices, look at what’s happened here. When you choose good and follow Yahweh, good things happen. When you reject him bad things happen. Um and it’s uh you know the the good is associated with lushness and gardens and flourishing and fruit and the Dry times are associated with like desert and wilderness and wandering and exile. So yeah.

Hannah • 45:26
Yeah. And the Exodus was deliverance and rescue. It was a way that the Lord brought new life and renewal of the covenant. So we see that um promise to be restored again.

Matt • 45:43
Now the other thing that I really love about Isaiah, and we’ve touched about this a little bit, but you know, we have been waiting as we’ve been going through the story of the Bible. You know, we got the promise in Genesis three that there’s gonna be the seed of the woman who cuts off the head of the snake. And we’ve seen some people that we thought might qualify for this. They turned out not to. David is especially the one because in the story with him in uh Goliath, there’s so much snake imagery on that one. We think, oh, maybe David’s this guy. David is not this guy. But We are told that our our Messiah, our deliverance, is going to come from his line. And in Isaiah, we start to get a more full picture of who this person is and what we should expect from this person. So we he’s not just gonna be a king and a sort of military figure, but we learn more that his rule and his reign are going to be associated with like justice, righteousness, uh people are going to flourish under his kingdom. Um there’s going to be uh uh addressing of sin and unrighteousness and an injustice Um so we’re we’re told a little bit more about what the kingdom under this ruler is gonna look like. We get much more language about that than we’ve seen so far.

Hannah • 46:57
Yeah, and we’ll see a lot more of that language uh next week. in some of our chapters.

Matt • 47:02
Yeah, and I think when we get into some of that we’ll see, oh, we might actually because so far this all sounds good. I think we’d all like to have a king that is Going to be a champion for justice and righteousness. And I want to be on that king’s team, but now we’re going to start seeing some things about this king that maybe make us start adjusting our expectations. and adjusting what we look forward to. So that’ll be interesting to dig into next week.

Hannah • 47:26
So Yeah.

Matt • 47:28
Yeah. So I’m grateful to be in Isaiah. I find it to be really, really rewarding reading I’m glad that you are I’m glad I have you to help me make sense of some of this stuff, Hannah. Thank you so much.

Hannah • 47:38
Yeah, I’m also very excited to be an Isaiah and be done with the first and sign case.

Matt • 47:46
Uh yeah. Yeah. So I think that’s enough today. I mean there are tons and tons of connections, and I’m sure as you are all reading through them, you are seeing some that maybe we haven’t even seen that we’re not talking about on this podcast. So Throw those in there or stop us in the hall church. We would love to uh chat with you about it. It’s just it’s so rich, it’s so rewarding. Um, and that there’s even more good stuff to come as we keep going. So uh more to look forward to next week. So Um I think that’s probably enough for today. What do you say we wind it up, Hannah? Does that sound good? All right. Why don’t you pray for us and then we’ll be dismissed?

Hannah • 48:17
Sure. Lord, we just thank you so much for this time that we have together to dive deep into your word and to um Read about the um not just the purifying judgment and justice that you bring, which the world needs. Um But that is heavy for us, Lord. And so we’re just so grateful for the hope that you give us, the um, not just the hope for a an abstract. um restoration, but for a person, for your son, who is our hope, who is our Messiah, the anointed one who has delivered us And um it’s just such a gift to see how uh long before from eternity past you’ve planned. um for your son to uh be part of your purposes in this way and to see how he continues to work uh in our own lives and personal and practical in and intimate ways. And how um he will bring forward, uh bring forth a consummation of that hope um in our future that we still have hope to look forward to. And so we just thank you for this time that we have to study together. I pray that you would continue to give us your spirit, to understand your word, to see who you are in deeper and richer ways. And to just delight in your word for the purpose of bringing us closer to you so that we might love you and know you more. And we pray all this in Jesus’ name Amen.

Matt • 50:04
Amen. Thanks so much, Hannah. And thank you to all of you for hanging out with us and listening. Keep reading, keep asking great questions. It’s been such a joy to be on this journey with you. And we will see you next time.