Bible in A Year: Episode 30

Intro • 00:00
Welcome to Read the Bible in a Year with Matt and Hannah, a weekly podcast from Fairfax Bible Church where we explore scripture together, uncovering its themes and design patterns. We’re glad you’re here. Now, here are your hosts, Matt and Hannah.

Matt • 00:15
Okay, it is episode number 30. These numbers are getting a little big, Hannah.

Hannah • 00:21
Yeah. That’s a lot.

Matt • 00:23
It doesn’t feel like we’ve done this 30 times.

Hannah • 00:26
Oh feels like it to me.

Matt • 00:28
Oh okay. Oh, poor Hanna’s dragon a little bit having to hang out with me on these things. Uh in that I feel like uh every time we sit down to talk about what we’ve read this week, I feel like there’s so much that is new That it’s like, oh, it’s it’s you know so if it was the kind of thing where we’re just circling back over the same thing over and over again, maybe some of the books in the Old Testament got that way, but now it feels like, oh, we’re doing something new. So I come to this microphone every week. I’m like, oh, I want to talk to Hannah about this. Or I know Hannah has a thought about this. Or gosh, people had so many interesting comments this week. So I don’t know. I get excited.

Hannah • 01:11
Yeah. I I wasn’t saying that like a bad thing.

Matt • 01:17
It feels like a long time. No, I know, I know. I know. I did have um I was talking to Rohit for a little bit at our uh kickoff picnic this week, um, which we still have leftovers from in my fridge. People, people, you did not eat enough chipotle. You gotta do better next time.

Hannah • 01:34
Wow.

Matt • 01:35
Um but uh Rohit was he is schooled and caught up on the podcast.

Hannah • 01:39
Oh yeah?

Matt • 01:40
Yeah, he was like making references. He was like, oh yeah, that time when Hannah said the thing to you. So as far as I know, we have three listeners.

Hannah • 01:48
I know that uh Karis is caught up too. She just said Keris.

Matt • 01:52
I think we have Kis. Well maybe four, because we have Karis and we have Christy. Christy’s a faithful listener, my wife, and uh Rohit. And your mom.

Hannah • 02:00
Yeah, my mom, but um both of my parents usually are are good good listeners. My mom’s out of town though, so maybe she’s behind.

Matt • 02:07
Oh, this is a great thing to do while like you’re walking through an airport though.

Hannah • 02:11
Yeah, true.

Matt • 02:13
Uh no seriously, uh I we actually have no idea how many people are listening, but you do tell us that you listen and you send us notes and things like that and it is Super fun. So thank you all. Um, it’s a pleasure to do this. I think we mostly do this because we have fun hanging out with each other, uh, but we also Love to hear all the ways that you are connecting with this and all the things that you are seeing in Scripture. And when you share those things with us, uh, it is amazing and fun. So keep it up. Thank you all so much. Um I feel like there was something else I was gonna tell you. Oh, um update on the coffee situation. Yeah Our friend Karis uh had gifts from Japan for us. She sent me a note that said uh she wanted to expressly say that does she does not like you better than she likes me. Which must mean that she likes me better than she likes you.

Hannah • 03:03
No I don’t think so.

Matt • 03:05
Oh, okay.

Hannah • 03:06
Yeah. She also texted me that too. Which is how I knew that she was caught up on the podcast. Because we talked about that last week.

Matt • 03:16
Um so you have gotten to try your gift from Keris, and you said it’s pretty good.

Hannah • 03:20
It was amazing.

Matt • 03:22
Oh okay I haven’t tried mine yet. That’s true. You are judicious when it comes to uh opinions about well most things even. We have I don’t think we’ve told the people on the podcast about your list.

Hannah • 03:36
Oh, you can’t do this is too public for the list.

Matt • 03:42
When you see Hannah at church next time, ask her about her best. That’s brilliant. Oh, I want to end the narrative. We are in the Gospel of Matthew, uh, and I think we’re grooving Uh there’s a lot happening. It’s super interesting to read, especially based on all the work that we’ve done on design patterns and hyperlinks. Um, but in addition, we are working our way through the Psalms or in our second passage. passing through the Psalms. And there were a couple of remarks on that. I think there was some um some remarks about Psalm 87. And we did hit Psalm 88 and 89 this week. I won’t belabor this right now, but those are really interesting psalms in that they’re a little bit more um uh they’re sad lament kind of psalms. So I want to give Sh Hang a shout out because he actually called that out and said Something he’s been thinking about is do we sing enough songs that are in minor keys? Uh that are songs of lament. I thought that was really interesting. I I am interested in those type of things, but um But yeah, I I loved seeing that commentary and that thought. Hang also had a note in there about um, you know, being from the part of the world that he’s from, a little bit more familiarity with honor shame culture. um than I think most of us in the United States uh encounter. And so I thought that was really interesting as well. So it’s one of those things where you sort sort of bring your background and experience to the scripture and it it because you have eyes to see, you see certain things that may not be there for the rest of us. So I thought that was really interesting.

Hannah • 05:13
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 05:15
Yeah, Psalm 88 and 89 are both favorites of mine. In fact, I think I think it’s probably in the archives. I did a sermon on Psalm 89 one time about the freedom that we have to complain before God. Yeah, so I’m not sure it’s actually a great sermon, so I can’t recommend that people go back and listen to it. But if you’re curious, it’s in there somewhere.

Hannah • 05:38
How far back do we have to scroll?

Matt • 05:41
I want to say that was seven years ago, maybe eight years ago.

Hannah • 05:44
Okay.

Matt • 05:45
Okay. Oh while maybe we should set these things to expire. I’m not really sure. People need to listen to that one. But anyhow, it’s in there. So and you’ll know my affinity for Psalm eighty nine. So yes, love seeing the commentary in the Psalms. Uh I think people know Psalms are really close to my heart. And it really informs not only the the I mean Psalms is worth reading for its own sake, but the way that we see it, especially match up with what we see in the narratives. I think is is really fascinating.

Hannah • 06:11
Yeah, there was another connection. I think Ian Cox made the comment about um Jesus walking on the water and having control over the sea and even, you know, he uh stops the storm. Um Uh that’s a different story, I think. But uh I was it Psalm eighty-nine or a different one where it talks about Uh God Yahweh having power over the seas. So there was a a nice connection between the two.

Matt • 06:44
I think it is Psalm 89.

Hannah • 06:45
Yeah, yeah. First nine, I think. You rule the raging of the sea. When its waves rise, you still them. Yeah.

Matt • 06:56
Yes. You know what? Let’s do it. I mean he’s the leader in the clubhouse for gold stars, but let’s just give him another one. Gold star Ian Yeah, you’re you’re the power hitter in the gold star lineup. Gold star for Ian. By the way, just officially gold star for Hang too.

Hannah • 07:12
Just officially.

Matt • 07:13
Well, I’m not sure I expressly said that I am awarding Hang a gold star. For sharing some wisdom on on our shame culture in Psalm 88 and 89. So official gold star.

Hannah • 07:25
Official.

Matt • 07:26
Nice. But let’s talk uh well I think I think this week in the reading plan we did chapters nine through twenty-two.

Hannah • 07:34
You’re always one day off, Matthew.

Matt • 07:36
Am I?

Hannah • 07:36
Yeah.

Matt • 07:37
Well, okay, what are the right days?

Hannah • 07:38
I have seven through twenty.

Matt • 07:40
Oh, okay. That makes more sense. Okay. I have to change it in our note sheet, so okay. That makes sense. Okay. Uh well I was gonna say we wanted to do a little bit of a go back to the Sermon on the Mount. We Touched on it last week, but we didn’t really get to dive in too much and it’s super important. I mean some of the greatest hits in scripture are there.

Hannah • 08:01
Oh yeah. Yeah. The golden rule.

Matt • 08:04
Uh the Beatitudes.

Hannah • 08:06
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 08:07
Yeah, top that. Well it is now.

Hannah • 08:13
Oh, I thought the golden rule was number one.

Matt • 08:15
Oh, maybe. The Beatitudes are pretty good though.

Hannah • 08:18
Yeah, yeah.

Matt • 08:19
Okay. Lord’s Prayer.

Hannah • 08:21
Oh the Lord’s Prayer, yeah. That might that might beat ’em all.

Matt • 08:26
Can we talk about the Lord’s Prayer for a second?

Hannah • 08:28
Sure

Matt • 08:29
So it was pointed out to me, um, I think when the Bible project was doing their Sermon on the Mount series, which is brilliant, by the way, people. Go back and listen to that, do the videos and the podcast on that, uh, that the Lord’s prayer is In the center of the center. Much like the um uh the the atonement part was in the center of the center in Leviticus, the Lord’s prayer is in is the center of the center.

Hannah • 08:54
I think it’s three cent the center of the center of the center.

Matt • 08:58
It’s amazing. That so like kind of like and so you learning what we have learned about like patterns and design in in Hebrew literature, um, knowing that you know they don’t structure their arguments or narrative persuasion. l in a linear way that we might be used to uh in English, but it’s more in the like uh I don’t even know what the tur you you might know the term if you know it. Oh, that’s chiastic?

Hannah • 09:25
Yeah, like a chiasm. Usually that’s used of poetry. A chiasm. But uh you know, I might say there’s like bookends and then there’s something in the middle that stands out. in comparison to the mirrored parts.

Matt • 09:41
Okay, so you definitely get a gold star. That was amazing. So the chiastic design. And so we will show so using the chiastic uh design methodology, the Lord’s Prayer is in the center of the seminal passage. And so kind of the the point of that passage is, yeah, do this. Pray this way.

Hannah • 10:00
Yeah.

Matt • 10:01
Yeah, I love it. So I have a little thing now. I pray the Lord’s Prayer when I’m walking from my car into the building at work.

Hannah • 10:08
Oh.

Matt • 10:09
Yeah.

Hannah • 10:09
That’s a nice rhythm.

Matt • 10:11
I learned somewhere that um in the early days, the first uh generation of believers would have prayed the Lord’s Prayer like Is it three times a day, five times a day? They like a certain rhythm with it. And I I haven’t built up to that kind of rhythm. But but every day when I’m walking from my car into the building, I pray the Lord’s Prayer.

Hannah • 10:30
Yeah.

Matt • 10:31
Yeah, so that that that what has become very special to me. And and I see it, you know, you know, your kingdom come, your will be done. And I’m like, well, you know, on earth as it is in heaven, well heaven doesn’t or earth doesn’t look anything like uh heaven is gonna look, so yes. Yes, I’m praying that. But I when I get to the point of um uh forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us. Like I we might come to this a little bit later, but I’m I am s recovering grudge holder might be a little too dramatic a term for me, but I I I feel that way about myself. So that thing where it’s like, okay, so that person who really made me upset or angry about this thing, that thing, no, really, forgive them. Like, I’m going to forgive them so that you will forgive me. So it’s really amplified the truth of that passage for me. So yeah. It’s it has it’s done a lot to change how I think and kind of how how I relate to people. Just praying that every day. Yeah.

Hannah • 11:31
Yeah. Very cool.

Matt • 11:33
Yeah. Um and I’d want to do one quick shout-out. We alluded to the or I alluded to this last week. Um probably one of the single books that has uh shaped my thinking and been super impactful on my walk with God is about the Sermon on the Mount. Um it’s by Dallas Willard, who’s a writer I would definitely encourage you guys to get familiar with, and the book I’m speaking of is called The Divine Conspiracy. Have you read this one?

Hannah • 11:59
I haven’t, but I do really like Dallas Willard.

Matt • 12:02
Yeah, he’s if you don’t know Dallas Willard, he was a he was actually a college professor. He w he taught philosophy at the University of South Carolina or no Southern California, I’m sorry. the University of Southern California. Fun fact, my friend Andy McCarg used to have his office right down the hall from Professor Willard. So shout out Andy McCarg. Um Uh and so he was a philosophy professor, but he was a you know, he served uh at a local church there in Los Angeles and started writing some things later in life. And so The Divine Conspiration. He’s written a lot of great books, but that one I think is pinnacle for me. And it basically is a uh run through the Sermon on the Mound asking, what would it really look like if we believed this?

Hannah • 12:45
Hm.

Matt • 12:45
If it wasn’t just a Sunday school lesson for us, but when Jesus says something like, turn the other cheek, what does that what does that actually look like? Um what if ’cause I think sometimes we think the Sermon on the Mount is a little bit aspirational or metaphorical or something like that. He’s like, no, no. Jesus says it’s it’s literal. He’s like he doesn’t say the kingdom of he’s like this is what the kingdom is. So yeah, it was very challenging and it has done a lot to shape my prayer and shape my thinking. So highly recommended. Put it on your uh put it on your Amazon list. Order a copy. We’ll start a little book club.

Hannah • 13:22
Hm.

Matt • 13:23
That’ll be fun. Sounds good. Yeah. So what are what are so I know we got a couple of themes we wanna pull out of the Sermon on the Mount and and s and especially the tail that we see from some of those things in Matthew. But what are a couple of things for you that jump out about the Sermon on the Mount?

Hannah • 13:39
Uh well, can I dive into our first topic?

Matt • 13:43
Why don’t we do that? Because I think yeah, there’s some good stuff here. Yeah, do that.

Hannah • 13:46
Okay, because that’s what I have on my mind. So I want to hear what’s on your mind, Hannah. Well, so the Sermon on the Mount is really announcing the arrival of God’s kingdom. And then a lot of the following chapters are uh playing out that reality of the kingdom in the day-to-day life. So um Jesus is uh speaking with authority um in the sermon, but then he’s demonstrating that authority or that power. in his actions throughout the the following chapters. And one of the connections that I saw is That the Sermon on the Mount wraps up with this idea of the theme of the choice, which we’ve talked a lot about. And we alluded to this last uh week, I believe. So in chapter seven, um I would say verses thirteen through twenty-seven Um, which is the last major section of the Sermon on the Mount is laying out this choice, and there’s three different uh, I don’t know, metaphors or or whatever that Jesus is demonstrating these two choices. The first one is the the two gates. So the the narrow gate gates or paths, the narrow gate um or the wide easy gate. The wide and the easy gate is the one that leads to destruction, but the the narrow gate um With that way is hard and it leads to life, and those who find it are few. This is verses 13 and 14. And that sounds so much like what Moses said in um Deuteronomy especially but throughout the Torah.

Matt • 15:44
I was gonna say I’m I’m getting some notes of Deuteronomy. I feel like I’m in a winery now.

Hannah • 15:49
Yes.

Matt • 15:50
Getting some notes of Deuteronomy. And

Hannah • 15:55
Yeah, and we saw that echo that the theme of the choice echo throughout the Old Testament too. Um and it’s um played out in the following chapters because there are a variety of choices or responses that we see different people make. throughout um you know chapters eight through even up to chapter twenty and I’m sure past that but For our reading this week. So just a few examples, maybe we can walk through.

Matt • 16:28
Tell me.

Hannah • 16:29
Okay. So chapter eight um has the story about the centurion. Um verses five through thirteen. And so there’s a centurion who uh uh comes to Jesus asking for him to heal his servant. And he recognizes Jesus’ authority. He says, I too am a man under authority. And if I tell my servant, go or come He does it. And so the centurion is assuming Jesus can do the same thing with his authority. And Jesus is really impressed by his um faith. And I thought this was interesting because the m one of the like primary reactions to the end of the Sermon on the Mount, this is chapter 7, verses 28 and 29. Is they were astonished because he was teaching as one who had authority.

Matt • 17:24
Uh-huh.

Hannah • 17:25
And like for that to be the the main shock value from the sermon stood out to me.

Matt • 17:32
Yeah.

Hannah • 17:33
Like there’s a lot of things in the sermon that maybe were kind of flipping around a lot of their expectations, or uh, you know, is he throwing out the Torah and the prophets or or whatever? Um But he’s speaking with authority. Like that’s the thing that stood out to him. And the centurion in the following or you know, a couple stories later is like, I see your authority and I believe it. They know what you can do.

Matt • 17:59
Yeah. Yeah. That is yeah, that is really interesting. Uh and you know, we talked a lot about sort of one of the mindsets we’re trying to go for and cultivate uh in our reading this year and and doing this plan is is sort of shifting from the devotional grab bag. to the meditation approach. So looking for the patterns and the rhythms and the repetition and seeing how things are grouped together like there. It would be super easy to read the Sermon on the Mount. I mean a whole lot of Matthew, but especially the Sermon on the Mount in that devotional grab back kind of way. There’s a lot of stuff in there that has made its way onto needlepoint pillows and And you know, art and things like that. Um but yeah, the point about like authority, Jesus saying, like, no, no, I I I want you to do this. I’m not just giving you sentimental platitudes. I want you to live this way. Uh I have the authority to teach this to you. And oh by the way, this is what’s good for you. I know what’s good for you. And so I’m telling you this is what you should do.

Hannah • 18:57
Yeah.

Matt • 18:58
Yeah, and it is interesting when for the text to point out to us that that’s the thing that impressed them, that he has authority in this way. Yeah, it’s it’s yeah, I like it.

Hannah • 19:07
Yeah, but the centurion recognizes not only is he speaking with authority in this sermon, but like I know he actually has the power to go do this thing too, not just speak about it. And that faith impresses Jesus.

Matt • 19:21
Yeah, and you know it’s interesting. I’m just noticing this. The story right before the centurion is Jesus talking to a leper. And what the leper says to him is, is if you will You can make me clean. Which I think we alluded to this when we were doing some of the passages in Leviticus about the clean and unclean and the this the laws about skincare and uh And so but the the the leper even says to him, is like hey, if if you want if you wanted to do this, you could make this happen. And Jesus says, Yeah. I do want to make this happen. Be clean. Yeah, that’s so he he’s kind of pulling on that little authority thing too. Oh yeah.

Hannah • 19:59
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just noticed the centurion very specifically uses the word authority. So that That stood out to me.

Matt • 20:08
Yeah.

Hannah • 20:08
Okay, a few other examples of responses. So another positive response, like the centurion, is the Canaanite woman in chapter 15. Mm-hmm. So she um wants Jesus to heal her daughter from demon oppression. And at first Jesus is like, oh, I’m focused on Israel. Yeah.

Matt • 20:30
It’s a bit of a cold response from that yeah, that’s interesting.

Hannah • 20:35
Yeah. And uh yeah, he’s a little bit dismissive or or whatever, but she pushes back, you know, and challenges him. And that demonstrates her faith. And so Jesus again is impressed by her faith and heals her daughter. So that’s an interesting response. And yeah, not an Israelite.

Hannah • 20:57
Yeah.

Hannah • 20:58
And I I have to assume the Centurion is not an Israelite either, right?

Matt • 21:02
I mean Centurion would have been a Roman soldier?

Hannah • 21:05
Yeah.

Matt • 21:06
I do not claim expertise on the ethnic backgrounds of soldiers in the Roman Empire, but I would be stunned if he was not Roman.

Hannah • 21:16
Right, right.

Matt • 21:17
Yeah, but like, you know, Or Greek or Turkish or something, yeah.

Hannah • 21:20
Yeah. But like Paul was a Roman citizen, but he was Jewish. But I think a centurion probably is not. Jewish.

Matt • 21:28
Yeah. If somebody knows, you can send us a note.

Hannah • 21:31
Yeah, we’ll do some more research.

Matt • 21:33
I welcome the education on this. But I think I think if it was gonna be different, the text would probably explain Explain that to us. I think we’re supposed to see that he’s a bit of an outsider here.

Hannah • 21:42
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 21:43
Yeah. And uh and uh you know, in this in the context of good guys and bad guys, he would have been a bad guy because he’s part of the oppressing element. uh in in Israel and I think a lot of the Jewish people would have been like, Well, wait a minute, why are you being cool to this guy? ‘Cause we want you to throw this guy out We want you to oppose people like this. We don’t want you healing their servants. We don’t want you like telling us that this isn’t as simple as our faith. These are the people we’re trying to get rid of. And we thought you were going to do this for us.

Hannah • 22:12
Yeah. Yeah. Now I’m kind of like jumping around in the text a little bit here, but the the fact that these People recognize who Jesus is isn’t the full extent of their their faith Because we see that the demons in chapter 8, uh-huh uh verse 29 recognize they say that Jesus is the Son of God.

Intro • 22:39
Yeah.

Hannah • 22:40
So they know who Jesus is, his true identity, but that doesn’t mean that’s not the same as listening to his voice or following him.

Matt • 22:49
Yeah.

Hannah • 22:50
And trusting him. So an interesting um, you know, distinction there. Even the demons know exactly who Jesus is.

Matt • 22:59
Yeah.

Hannah • 22:59
Yeah.

Matt • 23:01
Which it’s James who pulls on that string a little bit, right? Where he says, even the demons, you say you say Jesus is God, cool. Even the demons say that and shudder. Yeah. Yeah. So Yeah, so um so you used a different word. We were riffing on the choice, but y you threw another word in there, and I know it’s a favorite of yours, listen.

Hannah • 23:21
Yeah.

Matt • 23:23
Listen. That word listen is coming back around.

Hannah • 23:26
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 23:27
Yeah, and in at the end of chapter five where he’s leaning at the choice, he actually bundles them together. Because with the choice that he says is those who Listen to my voice and do what I say. Um, those are the people that they’re it’s like their house is built on a rock. But if you hear my voice and don’t listen to me, don’t do what I say, Um, then you’re like the house built on the sand. Uh so that’s kind of a riff on that choice. It’s not the tree in the Old Testament. I feel like it was tr a lot of trees, but this is a little bit different metaphor.

Hannah • 23:59
Yeah. Right.

Matt • 24:01
More architectural.

Hannah • 24:03
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 24:04
Yeah. Um but yeah, that word, so I know listen is a favorite word of yours. Where else do we might we see that?

Hannah • 24:10
Uh well, chapter 17 has a a lovely listen uh reference. So this is a transfiguration at the beginning of chapter 17. Um and it’s a weird scene because Jesus takes a few of his disciples up to this mountain and they start seeing this vision of Moses and Elijah. Um, and I think Peter gets really confused about what’s happening because he’s like, we should make some tents.

Matt • 24:44
I mean, confused would be the least of my issues if I was experiencing this.

Hannah • 24:49
Yeah.

Matt • 24:50
I would be like, what in the world?

Hannah • 24:52
Yeah.

Matt • 24:53
I I mean I’ve heard about this guy, Moses, my whole life and and Elisha. And Elisha, oh by the way, uh we’re told didn’t actually die. He just got swept up. Um and now he’s standing here, like I can see him and and he I’m listening to him. Like, what in the world is happening? Yeah.

Hannah • 25:10
Right. Yeah. So then this voice comes down. Um It says from the cloud, verse 5, saying, This is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him. So this is a lovely direct connection to that theme. And this is really cool because in the Old Testament, the idea of listening Which is also the same word as obeying, is primarily about listening to the voice of God, Yahweh the Father, and responding or obeying accordingly. But There’s at least one instance where the people of Israel are told to listen to someone other than God himself, and that’s in Deuteronomy 18, 14. The Bible Project called out this verse. um during the the reading of chapter 17 in Matthew. So that verse says, the Lord your God, I think this is Moses speaking to uh The people of Israel. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brothers. It is to him you shall listen. Yeah.

Matt • 26:22
Okay.

Hannah • 26:22
So there’s this connection. The Old Testament’s building this pattern of listening to Yahweh’s voice. But here Moses is saying there’s going to be this future prophet that you have to listen to And kind of then you see the thread like, oh, I thought we’re listening to Yahweh, who is this prophet? And then here in Matthew 17, uh God the Father’s voice is saying, listen to Jesus. So the implication is that Jesus’ voice is just as authoritative as God’s, which implies that Jesus Is God.

Hannah • 27:01
Yeah.

Hannah • 27:01
Yeah. Yeah, and that and that’s all related to the idea we were just talking about with Jesus’ voice being authoritative, like uh the reaction to his sermon on the mount.

Matt • 27:14
Yeah.

Hannah • 27:14
Yeah, very cool.

Matt • 27:16
Yeah. Listen, I think Pastor Matthew even uh alluded to that where he said he actually let me pull that up so I’m quoting him accurately. Uh let’s see here. Doo to do to do. Where’d he go? Oh, I think I moved that into a different file. Standby, people.

Hannah • 27:33
Yeah, I think he was responding to a really good reflection question that the Bible project put in on that day. But like what does it really look what does it mean to really listen to Jesus?

Matt • 27:44
Yeah.

Hannah • 27:45
Yeah.

Matt • 27:46
Now all of a sudden I can’t find it. I don’t know what I did with it. But yes, he was saying um That he can feel like yes, he’s like reading scripture or doing things, but like if he’s not being obedient, he can’t say he’s really following Jesus.

Hannah • 28:01
Do you want me to read it?

Matt • 28:02
You do you did you have it the whole time and not tell me?

Hannah • 28:05
No, I just pulled it up.

Matt • 28:06
Oh, okay. Yes, please read it.

Hannah • 28:09
All right, he said I don’t think I could ever say that I’m truly listening to Jesus if I’m not willing to obey his commands and trust his love for me, even when obedience is hard. I’ve been guilty far too many times for pretending to listen to Jesus simply by getting his words right without following him to live rightly.

Matt • 28:31
That is pretty good. That’s good.

Hannah • 28:32
Yeah.

Matt • 28:33
Yeah. Yeah. Gold star. The coveted gold star to Matthew Nicosia. Yeah, I like it. So uh yeah, so I mean it’s um yeah we I uh what I really love is how the writers here and we we’re I think we’re supposed to assume it’s Matthew, one of the apostles, although it it may not be, but um the the writer Definitely knows his way around the Old Testament, the Hebrew scripture. Definitely knows his way around the Torah and the prophets and the way that he is using some of the same word choices and design patterns and hyperlinks. It’s just really cool. It’s really cool to see it play out.

Hannah • 29:10
Yeah, there’s a lot of patterns and allusions. There are explicit quotes, but far beyond that, there are so many more references to Old Testament scripture.

Matt • 29:19
Yeah, and I feel like, you know, we talked a lot in when we’re going through the Old Testament about sort of learning to read the Torah for as wisdom literature. Because the Torah even says, you know, hey, we’re we’re spilling out all the rules here, but it’s not really about just literally following the rule. We want you to do that, but it’s about it’s about bringing w or using them to cultivate wisdom. And then we talked in the wisdom literature uh about that as well. It’s not it’s not really about like rote obedience to the rules that we see in the Torah, but it’s about letting them shape us into the kind of people that Maybe even don’t need specifically to be told do this, not that, because we’re becoming the people that learn how to do that. And I feel like Jesus is really showing us what that looks like in action because there’s so many callbacks To the Torah and the prophets, and there’s so many of him saying, This is fulfilled in your ears, I am the fulfillment of this thing. Or even like Hey, the scripture says, you know, you read in the scriptures, do this, and I’m here to tell you what that looks like in practice. Um it’s just really interesting.

Hannah • 30:21
Yeah, totally. Yeah, there’s that like a whole chapter, chapter five, of his sermon where he’s really getting to the heart beneath a lot of those commands with some specific examples that the Torah is not just about outward conformity to the laws, but about a transformed heart and transformed relationships that reflect God’s own character.

Matt • 30:47
Yeah. Yeah, well I think it was It it was either today or yesterday and so this this is in my notes, so I’m I’m riffing a little bit here. But when Peter says, Hey, if somebody sins against me, how many times am I supposed to forgive them? Is it seven? And I mean hey, you we’ve talked seven is kind of this cool number in scripture. It’s it’s you know related to the creation story. It’s the number of completeness. So Peter probably thinks like he’s being A little bit bible nerdy and like being pretty spiritual about this. It’s like seven. Is that the right number? And Jesus responds, it’s like seventy times seven. Where he’s like, it’s not really about like keeping score. Like become the type of person that is just willing to forgive again and again and again. And again, and again, and again. Like, don’t be a scorekeeper. Like, don’t just be like, well, that was six. And we got one more for you. I’m so spiritual, but you are coming up on my limit, person. Uh, whereas Jesus is like, you know, the the intent behind this is to become a forgiving person, not to know what the score is.

Hannah • 31:48
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 31:49
Yeah, so I love that.

Hannah • 31:51
Yeah. Cool.

Matt • 31:52
So another big theme in Matthew is Jesus as the king, uh, and he is announcing all over the place the kingdom is here, and also this is This is what the kingdom is like. This is what it means to live in the kingdom. And it’s an unusual kind of kingdom. It’s not the one that we would uh Think about it. It’s not what we see in the old fairy tales and Hans Christian Andersen and those things that we learned uh when we’re kings. It’s this phrase is not unique to us, but we’ll we’ll use it because it’s Well, it’s uh illustrative and and accurate. It’s an upside down kingdom. The people that we expect to be glorified and uh you know, lauded don’t really show up in their story. When they do, it’s awkward. But the people that are elevated are people that would be at the bottom of the economic chain, the bottom of the social standings that Jesus spends an unusually uh l large amount of time with broken outsider kind of people. Yeah.

Hannah • 32:55
Yeah. Yeah, and it severely offends the Pharisees that he does so.

Hannah • 33:00
Yeah.

Hannah • 33:01
Uh because yeah, the uh especially the religious leaders, but Um, even Jesus’ own disciples have a certain expectation of what the Messiah will look like and what his kingdom will will look like. And so when Jesus does not fit those expectations that um yeah for for the Pharisees highly offends them. Yeah. Um And even the disciples have to kind of learn what that looks like. Yeah. In chapter 18, the disciples ask, who’s the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And you kind of wonder like why what motivated them to ask that? You know, like you’re asking the wrong question. You clearly don’t fully understand yet. And then Jesus calls over a child to himself and he says, Truly I say to you, unless you turn and become like children. You will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. So he’s showing that upside down value system of humility as being the highest honor. Yeah. And speaking like you were mentioning the honor shame culture, I think that especially would have would have s uh been pushing against their cultural norms and expectations. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 34:27
Yeah, so there’s definitely a crew, uh, including many of the apostles and his close followers that believe Jesus is going to go up to Jerusalem, sit on the throne, um, stand up against the Roman occupation, that there’s gonna be on at least on some level, some military component to this that he’s gonna overthrow their oppressors and

Hannah • 34:48
Yeah.

Matt • 34:49
Sort of bring back the glory days. Um and you among the religious leaders, they’re really concerned about his, you know. purity and you know, purity laws and washing of hands and ceremonial things. So they think he can’t be this guy ’cause he doesn’t keep all their s silly rules. And we get some hints of this in the in the text that Um a lot of the things that they’re they’re talking about are sort of rules that they have added to the Torah and wisdom literature. You know, things about washing hands. You’re supposed to wash in a certain way but before you go eat a meal and when Jesus doesn’t wash his hands, they’re like, oh, what’s going on? So Jesus has to explain to them, it’s not it’s not washing your hands that makes you clean. Now now we know in the twenty-first century it’s good to wash your hands. You get sick less often when you do that. But you know, that’s not the point they were trying to make. So um uh So this idea like you’ve made up all these rules to make yourself feel spiritual and significant and you have it totally backwards. You’re you’re yeah, that’s not the way this works.

Hannah • 35:48
Yeah. Yeah, when um Peter uh in chapter sixteen says that that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, um It’s clear that the disciples like know who Jesus is, but in the following section, um When Jesus is telling them about uh how he has to go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed and on the third day be raised. Peter’s like, no, that’s not how this works. I know what the Messiah is supposed to look like, and you’re wrong.

Matt • 36:33
Peter’s getting a little cocky here.

Hannah • 36:35
Yeah. And that’s that’s when Jesus says Get behind me Satan, which is like a crazy thing.

Matt • 36:45
So brutal.

Hannah • 36:46
Oh

Matt • 36:47
Yeah, because it’s funny because he’s just told him, I guess, is it in even in Matthew’s account? Yeah. You you’re Simon, but now you’re Peter, which means rock, and I’m gonna build my church on you. And five minutes later he’s like, get behind me, Satan.

Hannah • 37:02
Right. I mean, I don’t know if in real life it was five minutes later, but it’s presented in the text as, you know, too. stories right next to each other. Yeah. Clearly to show that that connection. Yeah.

Matt • 37:17
Yeah. Insane.

Hannah • 37:18
Yeah. And I was thinking about this connection because um Peter is kind of suggesting to Jesus, like, hey, this way of humility is not how we’re gonna win and conquer, you know.

Hannah • 37:32
Yeah.

Hannah • 37:33
Uh all of like this all these kingdoms could be yours if you just rise up. uh with your your power in this world. And that’s really exactly what Satan did when Jesus was being Tempted or tested in the the wilderness for 40 days. And Satan says, All of these kingdoms I can give to you. Like totally not Acknowledging that Jesus already like has power over all of those kingdoms. And I I I don’t know, I’m wondering if that’s why Jesus says, get behind me, Satan, because Peter is kind of pulling on the same threads of like trying to tempt Jesus, I guess, if for lack of a better word.

Matt • 38:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hannah • 38:19
Yeah.

Matt • 38:19
Yeah. ‘Cause this feels like a conversation that is still happening, even two thousand years later. I I’m certainly not gonna name names or point out anything, but like if you pay close attention to the news And uh if certain writers, thinkers, would-be influencers are in your social media feed of choice, uh you are bound to see words like, well, we just need to get power And and then we can make these people do what we want. So we need to make sure that we get Christians in power so that we can change the laws and make people do this thing that we want them to do. And don’t get me wrong, there’s benefit to Christians serving in public office. All those things. I’m on board with all those things. But that thing about like we have to get the power It’s it’s just not the way of Jesus. It’s just not the way of Jesus. You know. And especially because Jesus could have easily taken the power. He deserves it. He he he and he can handle it even, and yet he expressly said, That’s not how we do things in my kingdom. Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah • 39:24
Yeah, and even on a much smaller level, like f the day to day for us normal people who aren’t like trying to conquer the American government or whatever. But like humility as a way of life in the day-to-day for Small things is something that we struggle with too, right?

Hannah • 39:47
Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah • 39:48
Yeah. Um Uh I, you know, chapter twenty, verse twenty-eight, even the son of man came not to be served, but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many. And in that same passage, that’s the reason why he calls us to serve So yeah, even just in the small things, the day-to-day things, that’s something

Matt • 40:21
Yeah, and the crazy thing is, or maybe it’s not crazy, um I I think that the thing that one of the things that’s why it’s so uh so much of a struggle is, you know, Jesus isn’t saying like make a sacrifice to do this. Jesus is saying like you’ll be happier if you live this way. I’m telling this for your benefit. I’m not actually Now he does have language uh here about like you’re gonna have to take up your cross, you know, you’re gonna have to count the cost of following me me. But when he says things like this, he’s like This is actually a better way to live. You’ll be happier if you’re not fighting for power, but if you just take a servant approach. There’s a story I think of sometimes. I’m blanking on the near. I think it was the performo. There’s a big scandal in British politics in the early sixties where somebody who was like secretary of defense or something like that got caught up in a scandal and he ended up getting kicked out of government and all of that. And he went uh and served as a janitor. in like a homeless shelter in England. And he uh at one point had the opportunity to come back into government and he said, mm, no. And years later, when they sort of gave him some sort of award for his service at this homeless shelter, he eventually became like a president of it or something like that. And they were like, you know, do you ever have any regrets? He’s like, Are you kidding? It was the s falling from grace in that way is the best thing that ever happened to me. It led me to a life of service and and humility that has made me so happy. Uh so I praise God that this happened to me because I’m so much happier than I would have been if I’d stayed in that high spot and even become prime minister or whatever. So yeah, I think about that story a lot.

Hannah • 42:01
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that um that mindset and those uh if we if our actions and our lives can flow from that humility, that’s how we can live as if the kingdom has already arrived because it has. in part.

Hannah • 42:19
Yeah.

Hannah • 42:20
You know, and one day we’ll be brought to completion. But Jesus has already inaugurated the kingdom here on earth. So we are invited to start living as if We are already in the kingdom because we are. Yeah.

Matt • 42:35
Absolutely. And with so many forces against us And not just evil forces, but our own impulses, even within our own institutions, just that pull to want me and mine or get my get my status or something like that. So many forces pulling against us. But Jesus is like, no, I’m telling you, this is what you’re made for. This is what my kingdom’s like. Just live that way now. Live as if the kingdom is here right now. Um And it’s good for you. You’ll be happier if you live this way. So it’s it’s invitation language as much as it is anything else.

Hannah • 43:11
Yeah.

Matt • 43:12
Yeah. Matthew. Matthew. Yeah, it’ll it’ll scramble. Uh I think Matthew might be my favorite gospel.

Hannah • 43:22
Yeah.

Matt • 43:23
I think so. I mean I share a name with it, so you know, I’m leaning that way anyway.

Hannah • 43:32
A little biased.

Matt • 43:33
I just love the clarity of thought. I just love where it’s like, hey, Jesus is like, hey, do this. This is this is what it means to follow me. It’s gonna be hard in some ways, but it’s really good for you. Yeah, I dig it.

Hannah • 43:49
Yeah.

Matt • 43:50
Uh all right, so what should we be looking forward to uh in the next part of our reading plan?

Hannah • 43:55
Well, this was actually a a very nice ending location because a big transition is about to occur in the next chapter. So Jesus is about to enter Jerusalem for, you know, his uh Final, you know, moments uh as a human on earth before he is crucified or put on trial, crucified and is raised again. So

Matt • 44:24
Well that’ll be fun to talk about too. Yeah. Awesome. Well, why don’t we go ahead and end it here? Can you pray for us?

Hannah • 44:31
Yeah. Lord, we just thank you so much for um the revelation of your word for its beauty and um uh uh how how much it reveals your glory and your power and your purposes, how it reveals your son. And we are um so excited to be reading the New Testament finally and how we can see how Jesus is the fulfillment of the whole story of the scriptures and how the the goal of the Old Testament scriptures are brought to completion in him and through him. And so we just praise you for this revelation to us, for the reality of the the arrival of your son here to inaugurate your kingdom. God, what um hope we have for the future. you know, completion of your kingdom, but also remind us that we’re living in the kingdom today. Um, even though it’s not uh the way that we want it to be in full. It’s not here in in completion, but we can see glimpses of your goodness and your beauty and your love and self-sacrifice through the example of Jesus that he’s set for us. And so Teach us and mold us and shape our hearts and our beings into people who live according to your wisdom, who are living according to your kingdom. um and are living with humility and love, self-sacrifice and generosity toward one another with right relationships. So we pray that you would continue to um All right. Um bless our time in your scriptures that you would do so for all of those in our community who are joining us on this reading journey. And we pray all this in Jesus’ name.

Matt • 46:38
Amen. Amen. Thanks so much, Haina.

Hannah • 46:40
Oh, thank you, Matt.

Hannah • 46:41
All right, all right. We’ll talk to you next time