Bible in A Year: Episode 25

Intro • 00:00
Welcome to Read the Bible in a Year with Matt and Hannah, a weekly podcast from Fairfax Bible Church where we explore scripture together, uncovering its themes and design patterns. We’re glad you’re here. Now, here are your hosts, Matt and Hannah.

Matt • 00:15
Alrighty, episode 25. I can’t believe this is 25 of these that we’ve done now. That’s amazing.

Hannah • 00:22
Wow. That’s a lot.

Matt • 00:24
It seems like a lot. In some ways it doesn’t seem like that many. It’s still feels like I don’t know what I’m doing on this thing, but we’ve done twenty-five of these. Yeah. Um so some things have happened since the last time we talked to each other. Hannah, you’ve you traveled. You traveled, but then you traveled again. I traveled a little bit.

Hannah • 00:43
Yeah.

Matt • 00:43
Did you have a good trip?

Hannah • 00:45
Yeah, it well, it was alright.

Matt • 00:47
Yeah. Uh I had a fun trip. I went to the beach with my family. I’m not really a beach person. Okay. I think in in the in the hierarchy of vacations, if if the basic vacation is beach, mountains, or explore a new city, uh how would you rank those things?

Hannah • 01:04
Hmm. Um I think I would probably put mountains first. Okay. And then explore a new city and then beach.

Matt • 01:14
That is exactly my order.

Hannah • 01:16
Yeah.

Matt • 01:17
Exactly. Yes. Now cruises and those things, resort, that’s a different category altogether. So we’re not talking about those. But yeah, love the mountains. Love exploring a new city. And a distant third is beach for me. But I was at the beach with my family. It makes them happy, and when they’re happy, I’m happy. So it’s all good. Yeah. Um And but I kept reading my Bible. Oh yes I did.

Hannah • 01:39
Good for you.

Matt • 01:40
I know. And we’re doing Job

Hannah • 01:43
Yeah.

Matt • 01:44
Uh I’m kind of excited about this one. You look excited?

Hannah • 01:47
Yeah.

Matt • 01:47
It’s a strange book. I feel like we have to say that right off the bat for the people.

Hannah • 01:52
Yeah, it’s a it’s a difficult book.

Matt • 01:55
It the structure is pretty different than other books that we’ve read. Uh the way the narrative works and kind of the the s the plot as it were. is very different, I think, than the way that we expect as Western readers, especially. So I I could see some people really struggling with this book.

Hannah • 02:14
Yeah. And the genre is different, even though it feels familiar. Because we we get some narrative at the beginning and end, and then there’s a whole bunch of poetry in the middle, but the genre is wisdom literature, you know, and um Yeah, some commentators even describe this a little bit more like a parable in a sense as well.

Matt • 02:39
Oh, okay. I think of it as a play.

Hannah • 02:43
Okay.

Matt • 02:44
So I read it a kind of like I have the same experience when I’m reading like one of Shakespeare’s plays. Where it’s like I don’t I’m not sure exactly what’s going on here. And it doesn’t feel like the loops are closing for me in the way that I’m used to with a lot of Western storytelling. So I kind of have to labor kind of hard to uh enjoy this. And I feel like it would be easier to intake if it were like performed in front of me rather than reading like a like a script or something like that. So Yeah, I mean I love Job. I think it’s really profound, but it is it can be very challenging to read.

Hannah • 03:20
Yeah.

Matt • 03:20
Yeah. Um, but we’re getting ahead of ourselves. Uh why don’t you what’s the story so far? Why don’t you catch us up, let us know where we are, and then we’ll we’ll dig in a little bit.

Hannah • 03:29
Okay, so yeah, at the beginning we’re introduced to the character Job, and he’s described as being righteous and blameless, and his life is full of abundance. And then we jump to a scene in God’s heavenly courtroom and Satan or Hebrew Satan, which means uh it’s a title that means the adversary or the accuser. He says that Job is probably only righteous because God rewards him, not because he actually loves God. And so God allows Satan to inflict suffering on Job to put this um assumption to the test. And so Job loses everything and everyone. And at first Job still praises God in the midst of suffering, but uh shortly after he curses the day he was born. And so Job’s friends enter the scene and they offer a mixed bag of commentary and advice.

Matt • 04:32
I do have to say I’m impressed when they first show up and it says the text tells us that they just sat in the dirt and didn’t say anything for a full week.

Hannah • 04:41
Yeah.

Matt • 04:41
That’s intense. That’s intense. Yeah.

Hannah • 04:45
That feels like uh what a good friend would do when you’re mourning. But but that doesn’t last very long. That’s right.

Matt • 04:54
Well, last a week.

Hannah • 04:56
Yeah, a decent amount of time. But I’m sure Job was mourning for much longer than a week after losing his entire family and everything he owns. Yeah. So Job’s friends are representing the assumption that God operates according to a strict principle of justice. Um, assuming that Job must have done something wrong to deserve his suffering. And so Job eventually gets fed up with their speeches, he takes up his accusations directly with God. demanding that God come to explain himself. And so God shows up in a whirlwind and he takes Job on this tour of the universe, showing him how intricately he knows and cares for his creation and how Job is in no place to accuse God for the way that he runs the universe according to his wisdom. And so Job humbles himself and he repents for the way that he accused God. And the book concludes by God uh restoring Job, but not as a reward, but instead as a gift of his generosity.

Matt • 06:05
Well that was an excellent summary.

Hannah • 06:08
Thank you.

Matt • 06:08
It sounds so simple when you just explain it like that.

Hannah • 06:13
Yeah, it’s a really simple story, Matt.

Matt • 06:17
In some ways it is. Yeah, I guess simple doesn’t have to mean easy because it’s it’s not an easy experience as a reader. Um let’s dig into a little bit. So the first section here, we meet this guy, Job. Uh and we’re not I don’t believe he’s a Hebrew or an Israelite. In fact it even seems to maybe predate the covenant in in Abraham. Um it’s in the east somewhere, so we don’t we don’t know exactly even who Job is. uh or kind of how he relates to the rest of the story. But God digs him. He’s righteous and blameless. Now this is not to mean that he is sinless. Um, but he’s a righteous dude. He’s in good standing with people, he’s innocent, he uh communes with God, and God has blessed him. You know, he’s got a rich family, he’s he’s wealthy. And then yeah, the uh the Satan, the accuser and God have a little exchange. And it’s sort of curious. I don’t know, I guess um Like Satan just sort of walks up to God in his throne room. Yep. That that’s a question. Sure is. How can Satan just sort of walk up to the throne of God? What’s happening there?

Hannah • 07:22
Uh, I have no idea.

Matt • 07:23
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t that I don’t know. But yeah, he makes it seem like it’s pretty normal. ‘Cause God’s not r he’s not surprised to see him. He’s like, oh, so what you been doing? He’s like, oh I’ve just been wandering around the world looking for people to torture. God’s like, oh, have you considered my servant Job? And they have a little exchange and almost like Satan dares God to um withdraw his blessing from it. So that that one could open so many questions. Yeah. Which we’re not gonna or at least not in a way, because I you know I don’t know, is this the way it normally works?

Hannah • 07:57
Yeah, I have no idea.

Matt • 07:59
Yeah, it’s crazy. So there’s that. Like your mind is just sort of scrambled Right there in the first couple chapters. It’s like, wait, what’s happening here?

Hannah • 08:07
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 08:08
Yeah. And I I think overall the the book is sort of framed as um Like why are these things happening to this man? Um, and then what what’s he supposed to take away from it? And we never quite get an answer to that question. You know, it’s Satan basically dares God to withdraw his blessing from him. But then Satan doesn’t come back into the story. We don’t see that that loop doesn’t get closed. We don’t see At the end, you know, in chapter what forty-two, it’s not like there’s uh the last verse of chapter 42 is and God said to Satan, nanny nanny boo-boo. You know, he doesn’t he doesn’t do anything like that. Satan just disappears from the story.

Hannah • 08:52
Yeah, well he’s not uh that important, you know.

Matt • 08:56
Yes. He’s only the person that starts this whole problem in the first place, but no, he’s not that important.

Hannah • 09:04
Uh

Matt • 09:05
Uh which is probably actually true, but that’s just hard to get your brain around.

Hannah • 09:08
Yeah.

Matt • 09:09
Yeah. So it just doesn’t really answer questions in the way we’d expect. And I I think you you have always summarized this. It doesn’t answer the questions that we sort of come into the text with. It doesn’t answer the questions that we are asking. It’s answering a different set of questions.

Hannah • 09:27
Yeah, I think it’s even asking a different set of questions than we think it’s asking.

Matt • 09:32
I f yeah, I think so, but I th I think I need you to explain that to the people.

Hannah • 09:37
I think our assumption is that Job is asking and addressing the question about why suffering exists or why good people suffer.

Matt • 09:49
Right.

Hannah • 09:50
why bad things happen to good people. Um and I uh the book certainly gives us some insight into how to respond to suffering. in terms of coming before the Lord with our grief and trusting him in the midst of suffering because he so intricately knows and cares about his creation and his people. But um it doesn’t answer why bad things happen to good people. The main question that I think Job is addressing is more about God’s policies of running a complex world? Is it good policy for God to operate uh to bless righteous people, to reward people, um, because will people actually love God or will they just love the reward that God provides?

Intro • 10:42
Yeah

Hannah • 10:44
And it’s also discussing this interplay between God’s justice and his wisdom. So the the traditional like retributive justice model uh and God’s wisdom to govern this complex world according to his wisdom and how he wants to enact justice based on whatever circumstance i is occurring.

Matt • 11:11
Yeah, you know, listening to I’m sorta reminded about the conversation that we had about Jonah. Because Jonah sort of have a had a view of God’s justice and knew that God was merciful and did not want to engage with the um Assyrians. But because he’s like, no, I I I don’t want you to be merciful to them. I I want your blessing for myself. I don’t want you to Bless these other people. I I want you to smite I I want to be part of the good guys and I want you to smite the bad guys. And it feels like sort of Job is on the flip side of that in a different little bit different frame. Um but Job’s like, well hey I thought I was one of the good guys. Isn’t this how it works? This is what you do to the bad guys. Why are you doing this to me? That’s yeah it seems like that’s Part of. He doesn’t quite say it that way, but it seems like that’s sort of part of the conversation that’s going on in Job’s head. Certainly part of the conversation that his friends are bringing into this. Yeah. This parade of uh speeches and siloquies that they offer. And this is the part where it’s like, okay, maybe they’re not such good friends after all. Yeah. They get a little verb uh a little uh little judgy. Is that fair?

Hannah • 12:25
Yeah. Yeah, they’re pretty presumptuous about about both God and Job. Yeah.

Matt • 12:35
Uh yeah, and we won’t belabor the speeches here. Uh I think Bible Project does a good job in the theme video sort of mapping out the outlines uh of the arguments. But but one of the essences one of the arguments is essentially Well, God only does this to people who have sinned. And so you must have sinned. Just admit you what what you did wrong, and I’m sure God will make it up to you. So there’s that. Uh, which I think we we could sort of assign to them and be like, oh well they’re they’re wrong about that. And it’s not like they’re wrong about that. But it’s that’s that’s not a full picture of the character of God. And it’s also like not really being a great friend.

Hannah • 13:16
Yeah. Yeah, it’s definitely an incomplete picture. And it is presumptuous to assume that we know exactly how God operates this extremely complex universe that we live in and that he created. Yeah. So to say, oh well, I I know that God only punishes the wicked and rewards the righteous, if you’re being punished, if you’re suffering, you must be uh you must have done something wrong and that it’s causing this suffering. Like that’s just a really presumptuous way to view the world. Um and the one thing the first three friends stick to that very firmly. And then the fourth guy, Elihu, he comes in and he’s like, okay, well, maybe you didn’t do something wrong, but God is uh causing this so that you can avoid future sin. Like he knows that you’re gonna do something in the future. So he like I don’t know. It feels like he’s almost making something up just to be so firm in his worldview of how God operates.

Matt • 14:20
Yeah I also kind of like that he announces himself as the youngest of the friends and the youngest of the company. So he waited till everyone else had spoken to go. And then he talks like three times as long as any of them did.

Hannah • 14:34
Right.

Matt • 14:35
Yeah, he’s maybe not so humble because he just keeps going. Yeah, I think well part of the angle that he’s going for is the idea of suffering as an instrument to teach me s uh submission and obedience, that this idea that God’s going to use suffering to just sort of beat me down. Um so that r my response to him is one of um reverence, submission, contrition, something like that in that family of words there. And and again, it’s not like that’s wrong. It’s just again, it’s sort of trying to kind of put God in a box and sort of like in a formulaic way. make some sense out of things, do sense-making work that God doesn’t really ask them to do, uh, and that puts God in a box.

Hannah • 15:25
Yeah. Definitely oversimplifying God. Yeah.

Matt • 15:30
Yeah. And you know, look, I do this. I do this. You’re a better friend to people than I am, Hannah, so you are less likely to do this. But yeah, I’ve had things where You know, somebody like, oh, you know, I’m really going through a hard problem. And my response, I mean, I’ve learned to dress it up a little bit, but my response is basically like, well, oh cool. So what did you do wrong? What is this punishment for? What is this a natural consequence of? I’m a terrible friend to people in so many ways. I’ve had a I’ve had to I need to read Joba again because this is yeah, I’m I’m not as I’m not a very good friend to people either sometimes

Hannah • 16:03
You know, the question that gets me with um I think there is something like 35 chapters worth of these speeches between the friends and Job. It’s a lot, yeah. And then at the at the very end, God says that Job’s friends have not spoken rightly of me. And so I’m like, what? Why did I just read these thirty-five chapters? And what am I supposed to do? Like, do I trust any of it? Yeah. Is any of it valuable?

Matt • 16:34
Yeah.

Hannah • 16:36
For like i is is anything they say true about God? Or am I just reading this as an example of a poor perspective to have about how God operates?

Matt • 16:48
It is it’s really challenging to make sense. And especially and we’ve talked about this, the idea of people who are um Yeah, one of the frameworks that we can read the Bible as is sort of the devotional grab bag or like it needs to have uh very concrete meaning so that I can respond to it in a certain way. So or I can apply it in a certain way. And yeah, good luck with that with these chapters and chapters of half explanations and and all of these Yeah, it’s I I it’s it would be hard to preach this book, I think. I think it’d be hard to write like a devotional based on this book because there’s big chunks of it’s like that are it’s not reliable narration. And it’s not yeah, it’s like how was So, you know, we read something from like one of these friends and be like, Oh, okay, yeah, I’m gonna apply that. And then you turn the page and it’s like, Oh no, no, no, I’m not supposed to apply that.

Hannah • 17:41
So Yeah. Yeah, like I I notice this especially with Elihu’s speech. He talks about God’s wisdom. He calls him the Almighty. He’s great in power, justice, and abundant righteousness. Um uh God is great, we know him not, the number of his years is unsearchable. Talking about how vast his creation is, how we can’t understand his wisdom. And I’m like, yeah, that’s true. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. So I d one of the commentaries I was reading I wrote down a quote from it. It says, the most dangerous falsehoods are those that are closest to the truth.

Matt • 18:21
Yeah.

Hannah • 18:22
And I feel like a lot of this is true of God, of what the friends are saying. But like there’s a couple sprinkles of things that are not quite right. And that can I felt like that quote resonated with me. Like it can be easy to or or difficult to pick out what is true and what is not complete or what’s missing. or what is just a little bit off from what the truth is about God.

Matt • 18:50
Yeah. And then in the meantime, I mean Job is just standing in there like a champ. I don’t know if I could stand up for myself the way that he does. Uh I think if if somebody were Coming at me with all this stuff. I’d be like, oh, you’re right. Oh. Yeah. But but Job’s not having that. He’s like, no, I did not do anything wrong. Or at least I didn’t do anything to merit all this. Um and if I did, tell me what it is, because you know, my history is to be contrite and repentant. But nobody gave me the chance to do that before I lost everything. So if if you friends have you know, if you’ve got beef with me, you tell me and and to the person of God. Hey, if you’ve got beep with me, tell me and I will that we can address it. But in the meantime, I’m I’m sitting here in ashes. Wishing I Was Dead. I mean it sounds like a Bob Dylan song or something where it’s like, and it’s it’s like and I have no context for any of this. It’s I mean it’s a really powerful honesty from Job.

Hannah • 19:50
Mm-hmm

Matt • 19:52
Yeah, so I I I respect it.

Hannah • 19:55
Yeah.

Matt • 19:56
Yeah. I feel like maybe my prayers should look a lot like Job’s.

Hannah • 20:00
Hmm. In what way?

Matt • 20:02
Uh the rawness of it.

Hannah • 20:04
Yeah, yeah.

Matt • 20:05
Yeah, the directness of it. Uh rather than just sort of dressing up my prayer in flowerly, flowerly, I can’t say that word. floral language. Uh but the the directness where he’s just like, look, you tell me what to do, you show me where I’m wrong and I’ll admit it. But in the meantime, like I’m just sitting right here. I’m I’m ready for you. Whenever you want to show up, I’m ready. Whenever you want to talk about this, I’m here. But I’m not rolling over here. You you gotta come find me in this. And uh and I want You know, I want to he I want my case to be heard. I want I mean he even says we were going to touch on this a little bit in just a minute, but he he even touches on the idea of a mediator or arbiter. You know, he’s the idea, I need somebody to advocate for me. Um Because I I I can’t do this all by myself. It’s I don’t know, it just I I’m really moved by it. I’m really moved by Job’s honesty and directness before God.

Hannah • 20:58
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think one of the main distinctions between Job and his friends is that Job speaks to God and his friends speak about God.

Matt • 21:10
Yeah.

Hannah • 21:10
You know, Job brings his concerns and his grief and his pain, even though he kind of crosses the line and accuses God, um he’s still comes to God and speaks to God rather than these friends who presume a lot about God and uh don’t come to the Lord to ask for clarity or anything like that.

Matt • 21:35
Yeah, yeah.

Hannah • 21:35
Yeah.

Matt • 21:36
Yeah, they m they make God by needing to explain him or needing him to be explainable, predictable, defendable. They make him smaller. Yeah. And and by Job asking the questions and pleading for his case, he makes God bigger. Yeah. Um and I I I think there’s something in that. Yeah. Uh and then in chapter 38, God actually shows up. And I think this is the part of the uh narrative you get the most excited about.

Hannah • 22:08
Well yeah, th this is where the story all starts to come together. Like all of the Up to this point it doesn’t make much sense. You start to be like, okay, well now here if if God is speaking and showing this vision to Job now, like I can trust this. Like I don’t know if I can trust anything the friends are saying, right? Yeah. But like here is where the story starts to come together and you can start to piece together some conclusions about what the book of Job is trying to communicate to you. So um God has a A section of speeches, I think it’s between chapters 38 and 41. Um, and it’s kind of broken down into two sections because Job like responds halfway through. Um, so he shows up in this whirlwind and his response is like full of a ton of questions to directed at Job. And there are all these like rhetorical questions. Some of them are even s a little sarcastic. Um my my favorite is um 38 um verse. I think it’s let’s see. I think it’s twenty one. Make sure. Yeah, there’s twenty one. Um cause God is asking him these questions like, Where where’s the where does the light dwell and where is darkness? And he says, You must know since you were born then. You know? When I created the universe. You you were around, right? That’s why you’re accusing me of the way I run the universe. That is sarcastic.

Matt • 23:50
That is, yeah. Yeah. And then my eye can’t help but be drawn to the next verse where it says, Have you entered the storehouses of the snow? And have you seen the storehouses of the hail? Which I have reserved for the time of trouble for the day of battle and war. Um and you grew up in Illinois. I went to college in upstate New York So th I I don’t have a hard time believing that God has a closet or hangar full of snow and he just brings it out and dumps it.

Hannah • 24:19
Yeah, big silos.

Matt • 24:21
I have seen some big snow. Oh man. So that’s a kind of a funny image to think about.

Hannah • 24:26
Yeah. Yeah, so these uh few chapters are just littered with a bunch of rhetorical questions demonstrating It’s kind of Bible Project uh describes this like a virtual tour of the universe that God takes Job on. So he’s demonstrating all of these intricacies and complexities and how deeply God knows the universe, He knows His creation. How he was involved not just in its original creation, but continuing to sustain that creation in an ongoing fashion. and how deeply he cares about um this whole universe. And so he is pointing out that Job doesn’t have the same vantage point that God does and isn’t in a position to accuse him. And so I think instead of answering, like we were saying before, instead of answering why suffering happens, God is responding to this question about how we should view God’s world. Is it really good or is it broken? Is it ordered or is it chaotic? And God is like, yes, actually. uh all of that, right? The his world is really complex. And so um we can’t reduce God to a simple equation or a simple principle like this. simplistic retributive justice principle that the the friends were trying to explain God’s um justice by. And God’s character is just, but the way that he chooses to work out his justice in this complex world is governed by his wisdom. And so God asks Job to trust that wisdom even when he doesn’t understand it.

Matt • 26:20
I do love uh in in the English version it’ll be kind of right at the beginning of verse forty, where Job’s like, Behold, I am of a small account, What shall I answer you? I lay my hand on my mouth, I have spoken once, I will not answer twice, but I will proceed no further And then God just keeps going. God just like doubles down. Like Job has this little squeaky response, and God’s like, okay, I’m not done yet. Wow. Yeah.

Hannah • 26:45
Yeah. Yeah, so that’s kind of a pivot point between these two speeches that God has. So the first one is about the complexity of the world and how God operates according to his wisdom, and then Job realizes how complex it is and he’s like, oh okay, I’ll be quiet. Like I get it. My perspective is smaller than yours. Yeah. But then right after that God goes into uh two descriptions of these beasts. So he talks about behemoth, which actually is the Hebrew word for beast. Like it’s a it’s a vague term. It’s not like a specific animal, it’s just like the a beast. Um but it it probably related to Leviathan who takes up all of chapter 41 was an another ancient Near Eastern a symbol of chaos and death and destruction and evil. So we’ve talked a lot about Leviathan before. as this symbol of disorder and evil. And so God isn’t only answering Job with the first speech about how God’s perspective and wisdom are so much grander and broader than Job, but he’s also acknowledging um how well he knows these symbols of chaos and evil. how intricately he knows how they’re made up and how they operate and he asks these uh um more of these rhetorical questions about you know, Job, can you tame Leviathan? Yeah. No, but I can, you know. So not only am I well aware that there’s evil and chaos and destruction and suffering in this world, but I have complete control over it. And like we know if we’re thinking about this from a biblical theological perspective, God has plans to one day destroy evil and chaos at its source completely. And so I think that response is offering a lot of hope to someone who’s suffering that The evil and chaos and disorder that exists in this world won’t exist forever because God is in control over these great cosmic symbols of of evil and death and destruction.

Matt • 29:10
Yeah. Yeah, and I mean obviously I agree with all that. Uh yeah, I I I could see someone be like, well that’s all well and good, but but I’m sick with cancer now Uh I lost my job today and I gotta pay bills. Uh I have this, you know, troublesome relationship that is affecting me like right now. So I I could see somebody being like, well that’s That’s still not a g an awesome response. Or that’s um that’s still something that I need to wrestle through because that feels like something that is far away and notional. Whereas the suffering that I’m experiencing, I’m experiencing that here and now.

Hannah • 29:50
Yeah.

Matt • 29:50
Uh and I think that’s that’s that’s really real for people.

Hannah • 29:53
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Matt • 29:54
And I think people really struggle to um interact with God because of these things. And and I can’t blame them. I I don’t blame them for that.

Hannah • 30:02
So Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And and there’s not really a great answer for that.

Matt • 30:11
And I think um Yeah, uh uh the the temptation is to try and explain it away.

Hannah • 30:18
Yep.

Matt • 30:18
As Job’s friends do. Um that it d maybe it doesn’t matter or you did something to deserve this or you know, we s then then we start to get into trait things like God won’t give you more than you can handle. Like we again, we want to make God small because we want him to make sense here. But God’s invitation is to like kind of think bigger. think of his whole character and the way that he interacts, his his justice, his wisdom, um, and the way that he cares about people. So yeah, it’s uh I could see that being a tough one for people, but Um it’s really, really important to kind of keep thinking of God as like have a bigger view of God, not not reduce God. Like he he’s only satisfactory to me if he fixes this thing that I’m experiencing here and now. It’s hard and I I get that it’s hard and I have been with friends that have been through divorce and have lost loved ones and things like that and and that’s hard. Uh And I I I’m not good at that type thing. Like I I I’m more like Job’s friends that I want to be in that way. But you know, Job’s idea Job’s notion is God gets bigger to him. And I I think that’s where the hope really is for us.

Hannah • 31:29
Yeah. Yeah. And God honors Job’s wrestling and his honesty, the fact that he comes directly to God with his grief and his pain. And I think this book invites us to do the same.

Matt • 31:44
Yeah. Um, let’s talk about Jesus a little bit. Sure. Yeah. I I think one of the things that we want to do with an old testament text is where does the book highlight the work of Christ? Can we see Jesus in this book? I think there are a couple places where if you know to look for it, he shows up. One of them JT caught uh in our reading uh from I think it’s chapter nine, verse uh thirty-two and thirty-three. Where uh Job calls out for an arbiter or medior mediator. Um so I love that. I love the idea of sort of calling out like this role is necessary. That um uh we can’t stand before God on our own, that we need somebody to intercede for us. The New Testament, especially the book of Hebrews, tells us that that is one of the things Jesus does for us. that he intercedes for each other. He’s known as the mediator of a new covenant. So I feel like God sort of answers that call in the New Testament in the person of Jesus. And then sort of the classic one, and I I know you have some thoughts about this idea, uh, but uh a little bit tethered to the idea in Isaiah of the the innocent one who suffers or the suffering servant. I think there’s some some connection there.

Hannah • 32:53
Yeah. Yeah, Job as the righteous sufferer points to Jesus as the ultimate righteous sufferer. Yeah. There’s a lot of parallels between the two. um thinking typologically, even including the anguish of betrayal that they both feel and the pain of rejection. Even being abandoned by the Father, Jesus expresses, you know, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And Job um expresses that in chapter 19 that he feels abandoned by God. And then both Job and Jesus’s righteousness or innocence is vindicated or declared at the end. Um, you know, chapter 42 of Job, the Lord says that Job has spoken rightly of me. Um and then the uh intercession that Job plays for the friends, just like Jesus, of course, intercedes for all of humanity. So a lot of Parallels from a typological perspective. The one thing is that while Job suffers without cause Jesus goes far beyond that by suffering uh while willingly bearing the consequences of all of humanity’s sin.

Matt • 34:16
Yeah.

Hannah • 34:17
Yeah.

Matt • 34:18
Yeah. And I I love in chapter forty-two where God says to the friends, you know, you have not spoken of me what is right. But Job has. And so now Job’s going to pray for you. And so he has them bring the animal sacrifices, a little bit of a uh taste of what we see in the the temple sacrifice. And so yeah, and then Job intercedes for them. There’s just almost this idea that the suffering is qualifier as too too hard a word, uh or too strong a word there. But this this idea that uh because of what Job has been through, he’s equipped to intercede, that God hears his prayer in a different way um than others who have not gone through the suffering. And it’s definitely well, you know, part of what the New Testament tells us about Jesus, that um that the because of his suffering. the father elevates him to sit at his right hand. So yeah, it’s a when you when you have eyes to see it, there’s beautiful connections. to the work of Jesus in in the story of Job.

Hannah • 35:15
Yeah. I have uh a couple other connections to Jesus. I’m ready. Okay. So I think that Job, the book of Job creates a longing for this defeat of evil, you know, that um that I was just talking about with like chapter 41. Um the book is revealing the fact that the world is still threatened by these powers of chaos, uh especially towards the end here symbolized by Leviathan at a cosmic level, uh and only God can defeat. the powers of chaos and death and evil. And so this leaves us longing for a victor who can do what Job could never do, which is defeat the powers of chaos. And so Jesus is uh the ultimate snake crusher, as we like to say. So that’s one way that um the book points forward to Jesus by creating that longing. Another one that I think is um worth considering is that the the book ends without a clear explanation for suffering, but a big part of Job’s own conclusion is that he has finally seen God. So um forty-two verse five says, I I had heard about you with my ears, but now I see you with my eyes. And so I think that part of God’s response to Job is that he reveals himself. He makes himself present to Job. And so the answer to our suffering is usually not a philosophical explanation. Like sometimes we want that, right? But Rather, it’s it’s a person, and more so as Christians, we can say it’s the person of Christ, who was Emmanuel, God with us, so his presence. brought to us and through the incarnation Jesus entered into suffering on our behalf as the ultimate answer to our own suffering. So I think that’s another way that this book points to Jesus.

Matt • 37:27
Wow, that’s really beautiful, Hannah. No notes. I have nothing to add to that. Yeah, what a beautiful picture of what Jesus has done for us. Um because he’s the ultimate innocent who suffered. And as uh as you explained so well, you know, Job happens to go through some experience. Not quite random, but you know, a bit of a lottery effect. You know, he’s the guy that the the accuser picks out that day and uh almost like a test or a bet or um that he makes with God. But Jesus is fully innocent. In fact, Jesus doesn’t just happen to suffer or be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He willingly stepped into that. uh because I needed that uh and because I was separated from him and so he chose suffering um for my sake that I could be restored and enjoy um and share in his blessings. So

Hannah • 38:23
Yeah.

Matt • 38:24
Yeah, it’s beautiful. Well, that’s Job. It’s a tough read.

Hannah • 38:28
Yeah, it is.

Matt • 38:30
But it’s a really it’s you can really sink your teeth into it. It’s really there’s some really beautiful truth in there.

Hannah • 38:36
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 38:37
Yeah. You got anything you want to add?

Hannah • 38:41
I don’t think so.

Matt • 38:43
Alrighty.

Hannah • 38:43
That’s it, yeah.

Matt • 38:44
All right. What are we doing after Job?

Hannah • 38:46
I think Ecclesiastes is next.

Matt • 38:48
Oh, okay.

Hannah • 38:49
Which is a favorite for many.

Matt • 38:51
I have had some people tell me they’re excited about Ecclesiastes. In fact, there’s one person in particular. I’m gonna see if he’s willing to guest with us.

Hannah • 38:59
Okay.

Matt • 38:59
I’ll put the word out about that. That could be funny.

Hannah • 39:01
Yeah. Oh, and then everyone’s favorite Song of Solomon.

Matt • 39:04
Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, we might have to put a parental notice on that one. Awesome. All right. Well uh thanks so much, Hannah. I learned a lot from talking to you about Job. I hope others did too.

Hannah • 39:15
Me too, as always.

Matt • 39:17
Yeah. Well, why don’t you pray for us?

Hannah • 39:19
Yeah. Lord, we just thank you so much for your great wisdom, for the vastness of your understanding of your own creation and of humanity and the complexities that You are so intricately involved. You’re not only a uh transcendent God, but you are uh here with us. You’re imminent. You are near and you know your creation and you’re Your people so well. Um we pray that you would humble us before your great wisdom, that we would not presume like Job’s friends to understand you uh by any stretch of what that means. But um you’re not you don’t fit in any simple boxes, any clear black and white principles. Um Yeah, humble us to recognize just how big and vast and complex you are, um, and how limited our own understandings are. But nevertheless, you ask us to seek you, to seek your wisdom, and so I pray that you would Allow us to do that through your word and through community and leaning on one another, especially through the study of your word. And so we pray that you would continue to be with us and to grant us the power of your spirit to understand that you would reveal yourself to us. in bigger and bigger ways that you would become bigger to us, uh, like you became to Job rather than smaller um like to his friends. And so We pray all this in Jesus’ name. Amen. Amen. Thanks, Anna. Yeah, thanks, Matt