Bible in A Year: Episode 17

Intro • 00:00
Welcome to Read the Bible in a Year with Matt and Hannah, a weekly podcast from Fairfax Bible Church where we explore scripture together, uncovering its themes and design patterns. We’re glad you’re here. Now, here are your hosts, Matt and Hannah.

Matt • 00:15
Okay, here we go. Um, I want to get something out of the way right up top here. By the way, this is Read the Bible with Matt and Hannah. Hi Hannah, how are you?

Hannah • 00:24
Hey Matt, good, how are you?

Matt • 00:26
Good. Did you happen to notice in this week’s sermon that you and I got called out?

Hannah • 00:32
Yeah.

Matt • 00:33
So there was the mention that we talk about Drinking bougie coffee. Now, unfortunately, our sermon uh wasn’t recorded properly this week, so there’s not uh documented evidence of this sermon. No proof. People will have to take our word for this. But what I heard was Could Matt and Hannah please talk more about drinking bougie coffee?

Hannah • 00:52
Right. That’s that’s how I interpreted it too.

Matt • 00:55
So we should give the people what they want, shouldn’t we?

Hannah • 00:59
Of course.

Matt • 00:59
Yeah, so I am drinking a Papua New Guinea that I bought from Frame Coffee Roasters in Vienna, which is my favorite local roaster, but they’re a little on the pricey side. Um and I made it in my French press this morning and it was amazing. I enjoyed it.

Hannah • 01:13
Wow. I’m drinking in Ethiopian from small planes. Which isn’t that also DC based?

Matt • 01:20
I think that’s DC.

Hannah • 01:21
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 01:21
Local.

Hannah • 01:22
Yeah, and uh I made a pour over in a V60. Yes. That’s how I made it.

Matt • 01:27
That’s so good. I don’t have a V60. I do usually use a Kim X. Um, we really could go, we could have a bougie coffee podcast. I mean, if we got Cody on, and I I hope Cody actually comes on as a guest. So that’s a good twenty minutes of coffee talk right there. Yeah.

Hannah • 01:42
And then I actually just I was talking to Cody and mentioned I was in Portland and he asked what coffee shop I went to. And I was like, oh there’s only like two locations in the world. Like he’s not gonna know what this place is And he was like, okay, which one was it? And I named it and he was like, oh yeah, I’m familiar. I was impressed.

Matt • 02:01
That’s my guy Uh and then our friend Biniam is actually working on getting like a little coffee importer business going. Have you talked to him about this?

Hannah • 02:09
No.

Matt • 02:09
Oh, you would be his best customer, I think.

Hannah • 02:11
Ooh, yeah.

Matt • 02:12
Yeah. Okay, there you go, people. Bougie coffee. The Lord loves good coffee. You should drink good coffee. So we’re not here to talk about coffee, though. We’re here to talk about Jeremiah. Mm-hmm. I bet Jeremiah liked a good cup of coffee.

Hannah • 02:28
I don’t know that they had discovered coffee yet.

Matt • 02:31
He’s really thoughtful and sober minded. He seems like the kind of guy who would sit down with a hot beverage.

Hannah • 02:37
Yeah, maybe they had tea, but I don’t think coffee was discovered yet.

Matt • 02:42
Yeah, all right.

Hannah • 02:44
I I can’t you can fact check me on that.

Matt • 02:46
I don’t care actually. Well yeah, there’s no evidence, so we’re just gonna assume what we want to be true. Okay, no, that’s not true. Okay, no, we’re uh we’re reading the Bible. Episode seventeen, so we are working our way through this. Uh we’re almost halfway there.

Hannah • 03:02
Really?

Matt • 03:03
Yeah, well, I mean what? Well, I guess it’s the end of June. We’ll be halfway there. So it’s more like a month and a half till we’re till we’re about halfway through this journey. But yeah, we’re we’re cre we’re cruising. Jeremiah. Yeah, so I know you have a little bit of table setting to do, and then we got some themes we want to work and uh you know we were getting the rundown ready. I know you are super happy because we got some Genesis callbacks here, and as we talked about last time, uh you love a Genesis hyperlink.

Hannah • 03:29
I do, I do.

Matt • 03:30
But I do t I do too. But uh but yeah, you especially love a genus hyperlink. Well we’ll catch us up. What’s the story so far?

Hannah • 03:37
Okay, so we just started Jeremiah. We’re we’re covering chapters one through twenty-five this week. And um Jeremiah was an Israelite priest who lived and ministered during the final years of the southern kingdom of Judah. And so at this point the Assyrian Empire Empire already had exiled the northern kingdom of Israel, which we read about in 2 Kings, and then we also read in Isaiah from a prophetic perspective. And Jeremiah’s prophetic ministry lasted probably around 45 years. Which spanned the full three waves of the Babylonian deportations of Judah, including the destruction of the temple and the city walls in Jerusalem. And uh Jeremiah is sometimes called the weeping prophet because his message is presented with very deep grief over the spiritual condition of Judah and the coming judgment and exile. And so the book of lamentations is traditionally attributed to Jeremiah, and it’s really clear that he knows how to lament and express sorrow over the state of Israel and their refusal to repent. And so in the chapters that we covered this week, after Jeremiah was called and commissioned as a prophet, he accuses Judah of breaking the covenant. He compares their unfaithfulness to adultery specifically. That’s an image or a metaphor he likes to use He warns them about this threat from the north, which later he explicitly says is Babylon. And his message is largely focused on Judah’s idolatry and injustice So he spends a lot of time talking about how foolish and worthless their idols are, which we’ll we’ll get to and we’ll talk a little bit more about. And he also spends some time condemning their neglect and oppression of the poor and the vulnerable. And so at the very end of our reading this week in chapter twenty-five, it serves kind of as a pivot chapter in the book where Jeremiah announces officially that Babylon is going to come destroy Jerusalem and take the people off into exile for 70 years. So that’s where we leave off in our reading this week.

Matt • 05:56
Uh yeah, Jesus quotes Jeremiah a lot. In fact, I think I read somewhere Jesus quotes Jeremiah more than any other prophet.

Hannah • 06:05
I think Isa is probably a contender.

Matt • 06:07
Okay.

Hannah • 06:08
I don’t know.

Matt • 06:09
Somebody Google that for me and let me know. But he does he does say hey the the weeping prophet, my ears peek peeked uh up when you said that. Um yeah, because Jesus definitely calls back to that. So um yeah, so we gotta Couple themes here we want to trace. You know, I’m really glad that we have spent so much time talking about hyperlinks and design patterns, because Jeremiah is shockful of them. Like I don’t know how you’d really even have a sense of what was going on in Jeremiah unless you kind of had your eyes open for some of these things. As we’re going to get into the creation decreation. Pops up a lot. Trees are all over the place in Jeremiah. Um this choosing between life and death Which kind of is part of the tree one. There’s just a lot of themes that we talked about before, but we’re going to see how Jeremiah uses them. And Jeremiah even sort of Flips some of them, twists some of them, kind of gives us an interesting take on some of them. There’s some really interesting um choices and really interesting ways that the patterns sort of highlight some of the stuff in the narrative. So um yeah, I d I think you are especially interested in one that picks up in about chapter four. Is that right?

Hannah • 07:21
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 07:22
All right.

Hannah • 07:23
Yeah, I I wanna point out if if I if you didn’t notice I feel like people will have noticed this imagery. But um I want to point out some imagery in chapter four that links us back to Genesis one and then talk about like what that uh might mean or suggest, but let’s just start with the imagery. So chapter four verses twenty-three through twenty-six Um starts with, I looked on the earth and behold, it was without form and void. Does that phrase sound familiar? It’s without

Matt • 07:57
Yeah, Genesis 1-1, right?

Hannah • 07:58
Yeah, I think uh it might be 1-2, but yes. Um so this is a really fun phrase in Hebrew because it rhymes. Formless, formless and void is tohu va vohu. Sounds funny. It’s very fun. Um so that’s the exact phrase here, same as Genesis 1-2. The structure of Genesis 1 is so fascinating. We don’t have time for it, but it’s largely days one through three are kind of solving the problem of Tohu. Which means without form, like without order, not ordered, not structured.

Matt • 08:38
Oh, okay.

Hannah • 08:39
And then days four, five, and six are solving the problem of vohu. Which is to be uh to be void or empty or uninhabited. Yeah. So really fascinating structure. But um We in these like four verses right here we see a we see two sets of reversals. So there’s a reversal of days 1 through 3 and a reversal of days 4 through 6 based on the wording. Okay. So in verse 23 it says, I looked on the earth um it and it was formless void and to the heavens and they had no light. So the earth, the heavens, and light are days three to one.

Matt • 09:22
Oh, okay.

Hannah • 09:23
In the creation. Yep. Because day one is separating light from dark. Then two is separating the waters above, the waters below, which makes the heavens. And then day three is the earth emerging. from the waters. So we’re like unraveling days three, two, one in order there.

Matt • 09:42
Oh wow. There’s that’s a lot to happen in one verse.

Hannah • 09:45
Yeah.

Matt • 09:46
Yeah.

Hannah • 09:47
True. Okay, and then uh I’m gonna skip verse twenty-four, but twenty-five says, I looked and behold, there was no human, and all the birds of the air had fled, and I looked and behold, the fruitful land was a desert. Those are days six, five, four.

Matt • 10:04
Wow. Okay.

Hannah • 10:06
Human was made on day six. The birds of the air were made on day five. And then the Um land provided fruit, uh became fruitful vegetation on day four So we have a reversal of 321654.

Matt • 10:24
Wow. And now so not only have I never noticed that before, I don’t think I would have picked up on that if you hadn’t said something. Yeah. Wow, that’s fascinating.

Hannah • 10:33
I’ve spent a lot of time studying Genesis one through three. So uh the yeah the if you’re super familiar with Genesis 1, this is like, wait, all of these words are the same. And then I started looking at the order of the days, and I’m like, what? That’s crazy. Wow. This is like uh the the reverse order here, reversing both the formless and the void parts. is like a cosmic unraveling or decreating of what God did in Genesis 1.

Matt • 11:07
Wow. So yeah, that’s okay. So I’m I’m staggered a little bit here. Bear with me. So yeah, I mean we were we were pulling because there’s some other places where we definitely see some decreation moments, but like here it is like As if we were reading like a blueprint or something or a or a manual. It’s like if you want to see what decreation looks like, like here it is, basically spelled out in two verses.

Hannah • 11:32
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, Genesis 1 creation is all about God bringing order and beauty out of chaos so that humans can flourish. And um Uh so Genesis 1, God is solving this problem of tohuva vohu.

Matt • 11:51
Yeah. Um you you giggle every time you say it.

Hannah • 11:54
It’s such a fun phrase. But here in Jeremiah, we’re seeing that humans can actually threaten that created order and bring that Tohuva Vohu back into the worlds. Yeah. So we’ve seen already like this the passages that describe the exodus from Egypt and the entry into the promised land use a bunch of language from Genesis 1. That compare how those events are like a new creation entering new life. And so here we’re using the same language, but it’s comparing the exile uh in the invasion, you know, the the deportations that are going to happen, like a decreation or an unraveling of God’s work in Genesis 1. So these Um, this is a result of Judah’s sin, of their idolatry, their injustice, and they are becoming like agents of decreation.

Matt • 12:56
Yeah.

Hannah • 12:56
Yeah.

Matt • 12:58
Yeah, no, I had definitely picked up on that um skipping ahead a little bit, uh, but chapter eight, there’s a reference to the vine and the fig tree. Um or is it? Let’s look at it real quick here. Um uh do do do yeah, so it’s verse thirteen in chapter eight. When I would gather them, declares the Lord, there are no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, even the leaves are withered, and what I gave them has passed away from them. So I know you we talked before about when you see that phrase the vine and the fig tree together, it’s like a mini Eden moment, sort of calling back to that. Well, here Like it’s it’s flip we don’t have figs on the fig tree. Um the vine is empty, so we got an anti-Eden sort of callback there. And this is kinda y kind of consistent with what you were saying. Like cre we’ve decreated. Um and so some of the things that we see, you know, if creation was all about creating Eden and this place for humans to dwell with God and flourish. Now we’re gonna see evidence that that has been decreated so those signals of flourishing um aren’t gonna be there. In fact the opposite’s gonna be there.

Hannah • 14:03
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 14:04
Yeah. I think actually Keris pointed this out, uh different different reference this week, but gold star for Keris, because I think she was seeing this theme as well. So Wow. Oh goodness, that is fascinating well you know it’s it’s funny because um yeah I have been thinking and you and I actually ran into each other at a birthday party this weekend we got to chat about this a little bit, but one of the things I’ve been struck about with Jeremiah, I’m sort of feeling Jeremiah a little bit. Like if I were in Jeremiah’s shoes, I’m not as eloquent as he is, but I would be saying some of the same things because I I think one of the things the the picture that he’s trying to paint for us um that I think is really interesting to me is like how normal um it is to be sinful, rebellious, ignoring the commands of God. Like it’s just normal. Like when it when he’s talking about the people of Israel like when they um are sacrificing to Baal or when they’re doing chakra child cell like the picture that we paint, so we have to assume Jeremiah’s a reliable narrator here. It’s just normal. Like you’re part of the tribe of Judah. You’re living in and around Jerusalem. And like, well, of course you’re gonna sac go sacrifice to Baal. Why wouldn’t you do that? That’s what everybody does. That’s totally normal. You’re gonna go engage in child sacrifice. Why wouldn’t you do that? It’s totally normal. Of of course you’re going to. cheat the poor and trample on the oppressed and take advantage of people. Duh. Like why wouldn’t you? Because it feels normal. It’s like it’s just so um Like expected from them. Like they just can’t even see like how blind they are and how compromised they are and their failure. And it doesn’t feel like that for them. And it seems like that’s part of Jeremiah’s sort of banging his head against the wall this whole time. He’s like, Don’t don’t you know who you are? Don’t you know what you’ve been called to? Don’t you see what is on offer for you? And these are the choices you’re making. So I don’t know. I just been really, really struck by that as I’ve been doing the readings this week.

Hannah • 16:09
Yeah, they’re becoming just like the surrounding nations. Like all of those influences, the the other, you know, false gods, idols are coming from surrounding nations. Like um, they want to be they want to blend in with like everybody else around them.

Matt • 16:29
Yeah, like this seems to work out pretty well for the Edomites or the Canaanites or the Ammonites. They they seem to be okay. Yeah, so let’s sacrifice to their God or let’s, you know, engage in their sexual practices. Or yeah, let’s let’s just do what they do. This is what’s the problem here? Yeah, it’s it’s yeah, I’ve I’ve It’s uh you know, I get why Jeremiah is so sad because it’s it’s it’s um sobering as I’ve been reading through these passages. You know, I I was thinking about this a little bit when um Pastor Matthew was sharing this week about his trip to Nepal. And I don’t know about you, uh, but I was just really inspired by the story of the people who travel two hours by bus to come to small group. Did you you remember when he said then he had the picture of like the people in the hut? Yeah. And uh and I was like, wow yeah. I mean that’s Like the devotion and sacrifice and willingness to be challenged and give up comfort and convenience. to be with the people of Jesus, to to choose Jesus. I was really humbled by that, uh and inspired by that. Like And, you know, especially ’cause Pastor Matthew showed like all the the slides and pictures of just all the Hindu temples and Buddhist temples and the, you know, the picture that he had showed about how they they c cremate human remains and put them in the river. I mean you talk about a people that could just go with the flow. Our friends in Nepal could do that. They could just keep going and and get and nobody would ever know, nobody would ever think anything of it, but to follow Jesus faithfully They travel for two hours on buses. They go up and down mountain roads. They, you know, they they put their life at risk to be baptized.

Hannah • 18:19
Yeah.

Matt • 18:23
So that it’s um and and he I don’t think he mentioned this in the service, but he told this separately. They specifically pick a spot in the river. uh and they know the amount of time where the closest police station is. And so if anybody w sees them and like tries to call the police, like they know exactly how much time they have before they have to get everybody in and out of the water and then out of the way. Um so just the super duper intentionality to be faithful to Jesus in that context Um and then you see it uh in scripture as Jeremiah is talking about, and frankly you see it in our culture. It’s so uh strike the the difference is just so striking to me and sobering. I’ve I’ve been very, very challenged by this. Yeah.

Hannah • 19:06
Yeah, there’s so much more risk for someone who lives in Nepal to follow Jesus compared to like, I don’t know, we live such comfortable lives. Yeah. Freedom of religion. You know. Um it if it was uh yeah if if I lived in Nepal I would be afraid to be different. I would go along with what other people were doing.

Matt • 19:34
Um that was I would certainly be tempted to.

Hannah • 19:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the the fact that we here in America also go along with people with what other people are doing is uh a lot more convicting because We don’t we aren’t it’s not as risky for us.

Matt • 19:54
Yeah.

Hannah • 19:55
You know, it’s not uh there’s not as much maybe, at least on the surface level, not as much on the line. to go against the flow of culture.

Matt • 20:04
Yeah. And yet what is it about Jesus that’s more compelling to them than to me? I I I can’t think of what that would be. I c I can’t think of why that would be the case. And and I’m thinking about the the people of Jeremiah’s day. They’ve got the law, they’ve got the prophets, they’ve got the temple, uh, they’ve got, I don’t know what else they would really need in terms of um knowing who God is and knowing what he’s called them to. And yet here they are. It reminded me of a quote from Augustine. I think it’s a paraphrase of something Augustine said, but he said, you know, we don’t sin because we lack information. We sin because we lack love. Or I think the precise quote he said, the essence of sin is disordered love. And you see that so clear in the Jeremiah passages. They know. They know. They know. They know what the law says. They know what the Torah says. They they’re the temple’s right there. They see it. They experience the presence of God. They can go see the presence of God anytime they want. And they don’t they don’t care. They don’t care.

Hannah • 21:15
Yeah, well they they do still go to the temple is the thing, right?

Matt • 21:19
Yeah.

Hannah • 21:20
That’s what chapter seven is all about.

Matt • 21:22
Yeah, tell um yeah, tell me again, I know a little bit about this, but tell me more about this.

Hannah • 21:27
Yeah, so um chapter seven kind of describes how Israel developed this like false sense of security that they had some sort of invincibility because the temple was still there and God dwelt in the temple. in their midst. And so they almost would treat the temple kind of like a magic charm or um like a you know a a a protection. We actually saw something similar in um Some of the stories in First Samuel, where they would bring the Ark of the Covenant around to a battle, like a good luck charm trying to to win a battle, even when the Lord did not tell them to do that. Yeah. So like one of those stories, that’s when the Philistines actually capture the ark, ’cause God’s like, No, I didn’t say to do that. Yeah. Um But yeah, so Jeremiah in chapter seven is saying that just because the temple is still here doesn’t mean that it’s okay that you’re acting with injustice and idolatry. Um it’s super important that you’re not oppressing the immigrant, the orphan, the widow. Uh it’s super important that you’re not worshipping idols and false gods. And so they are, um verse eleven says, has this house which bears my name become a den of robbers? meaning that Israel would retreat to the temple after committing injustice or idolatry, expecting protection in the temple if they were to go worship there. They were treating worship like a cover or a refuge rather than repenting from the injustice or idolatry they just committed. So Jeremiah is addressing false security in these religious rituals, you know, because they were separating worship from how they lived their daily lives.

Matt • 23:17
Yeah.

Hannah • 23:18
And I think that’s pretty relatable to people in our contexts today too.

Matt • 23:24
Tell me more.

Hannah • 23:26
I think we can often find s false security in our religious rituals. You know, oh I go to church.

Matt • 23:34
Yeah.

Hannah • 23:34
I read my Bible. I pray most days. You know, oh if I oh it’s fine if I slip up and I do XYZ, you know. Yeah I s I’m still a good quote good Christian. Yeah

Matt • 23:49
Yeah.

Hannah • 23:51
So we get we get a false sense of security in those religious practices.

Matt • 23:56
And for for those of us in that category, Jeremiah would like a word. Yeah. Yeah, so uh that kind of builds up to another kind of theme that we want to talk about. It’s sort of moving along the creation-decreation theme. It’s this sort of contrast between the Desert and the garden. And so there’s a lot of tree imagery here. And we talked about the vine and the fig tree from chapter eight, but he keeps going with that motif. So tell us a little bit more.

Hannah • 24:26
Yeah. Well let’s start with chapter ten is talking a lot about idolatry and how idols are so foolish and stupid. And um he’s trying to make it super explicit, like just how worthless they are. So um in verse three It says, a tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold. So he’s describing how you make an idol. We’re just like taking some wood, let’s, you know, hammer some some nails in it.

Matt • 25:01
Yeah, you you’re in shop class, you’re gonna put this on your Etsy site or something. Yeah, yeah

Hannah • 25:07
Right. So he led in verse five to be like they can’t speak, walk, don’t be afraid of them. They literally can’t do anything, you know.

Matt • 25:16
I do like the phrase They are like scarecrows in a cucumber field.

Hannah • 25:23
I don’t know what that means, but I like it a lot though. Yeah. Yeah, so um I’m gonna start insulting people that way.

Matt • 25:31
You you like a scarecrow in a cucumber field.

Hannah • 25:35
Uh yeah, so he uses the word tree, which we had a a little word uh video this week uh on the Hebrew word for tree. Do you re uh let’s test test if you remember it.

Matt • 25:50
Okay, I think every time I say this, I think I get it wrong on the first one. Um and then I have to correct myself. So I think it’s etz.

Hannah • 25:58
Y yes, very close. I would say eight. It’s the the E kinda makes like more of a A sort of sound. Yeah Okay. But very close. Okay, gold star? Do I get a gold star? I’ll give you a silver star. Silver star. Okay.

Matt • 26:14
I’ll take it.

Hannah • 26:16
Great. Um, okay, so yeah, using the word tree to describe an idol. Okay, so trees. We know we’ve heard a lot about trees. We’re going back to Genesis 3. Oh, here we go. I love it. Um yeah, so that I mean let’s okay, let’s find the other. This is one type of tree. So let’s talk about some other trees. So let’s look the language in chapter 17 is is very good, very explicit. Um especially uh okay, well we’ll we’ll see another in verse two we talk about idols again. Mm-hmm. Um so it says beside every green tree and on the high hills. So they’re talking about um where these altars, these idols are stood up on these mountains that are to make sacrifices worship to false gods. Um so again we see the idea of idolatry being like a tree. Or under a tree or using trees. And then we see some explicit language about desert and garden in verses five through eight. So um five and six show us the desert. Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength. Verse six: he’s like a shrub in the desert. And he shall not see any good come.

Matt • 27:45
Oh, okay. Is that Tove?

Hannah • 27:47
Yeah. See what is good.

Matt • 27:50
Yes.

Hannah • 27:51
See is also a, you know, Genesis 3. Okay. Yeah. So he won’t see any good. um dwell dwelling in parch places of the wilderness, uninhabited salt land. Okay, then verses uh seven and eight are the opposite of that. So blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord. Um He’s like a tree planted by water, that sends out its roots by the stream, and does not fear when the heat comes, for its leaf remains green, and it’s not anxious in the year of drought, for it does not cease to bear fruit.

Matt • 28:25
Little Psalm One?

Hannah • 28:26
Very Psalm One. Yeah. Yeah, so we’re seeing these opposing images of Trusting in the Lord is like being a tree planted by water, fruitful and strong and sturdy, and um you don’t have to worry about the heat because you’re always gonna be flourishing. But also these idols are made of wood. So we have these two trees, a choice between two trees. We’re back in Genesis 3.

Matt • 29:01
Yeah. And then you know the idol is not necessarily a it’s not a tree that is planted. You fashioned it from a tree. So so we need a lot of latitude with the word, but that’s definitely what Jeremiah wants us to see.

Hannah • 29:16
Oh yeah.

Matt • 29:17
Yeah.

Hannah • 29:17
It’s just I mean it’s the same word. Yeah. Yeah. I actually thought when you said it’s not planted, I thought you were gonna take that further and be like it’s not sturdy.

Matt • 29:28
Oh, well yeah.

Hannah • 29:29
Going into the metaphor of like a someone who trusts in the Lord is like a sturdy planted tree.

Matt • 29:35
Yeah.

Hannah • 29:36
But this idol is just a cut-down tree.

Matt • 29:38
Well, you know, it’s a scarecrow in a cucumber field. It’s blowing around. Now he he keeps going with this. Um you know, desert, garden, that that contrast. He he kind of It ch chapter twenty-one, he does something kind of interesting because he talks about this choice again. He’s sort of using the Yeah, we s it n it’s he’s switched off the tree metaphor, but I think it’s probably still in his mind here. But he does that sort of choose life, choose death thing that that we saw at the end of Isaiah, that we saw at the end of Deuteronomy. This one’s a little interesting though. This feels like a twist to me. So I’m curious your thoughts on this because the the choice that’s presented uh to the people of Jerusalem here is is to choose life, is to actually go over to Nebuchadnezzar. the the king of the Babylon army, and say, Hey, if you if you want to experience life, go out to the King of Babylon and surrender to him. If you want to choose death, stay here in this city. um as I pour out judgment on it. I don’t that would that seems a little counterintuitive to me. I’m not sure why to choose life would be to go over to the enemy. Yeah. Am I am I misreading this or uh uh what what’s happening here?

Hannah • 30:57
I don’t think you’re misreading it, but I think it Is playing off this idea that sometimes what God knows is gonna be life for us actually looks like death to us. Like, you know, we don’t always think that his wisdom, what he his commands, what he tells us to do is gonna be the best choice for us and and we don’t see how what he says is good. So this for sure looks like death to them. And in in the present, like, yeah, it it was. It was exile, death Destruction, but God has a bigger plan and purpose in mind that will lead them to life because It will probably lead them, hopefully, to repentance. You know he’s trying to refine them through this exile. And uh ultimately becomes the remnant is what becomes um the line of the messiah, you know, which is ultimate salvation and ultimate life.

Matt • 32:02
Yeah. It’s it’s yeah, it’s just it’s an interesting dilemma to me. ‘Cause I think especially as a um modern day story consumer. Like I want the good guys to win. And this feels like you’re letting the bad guys win.

Hannah • 32:18
Mm-hmm.

Matt • 32:19
So this it’s kinda hard for me to get my head into that space.

Hannah • 32:23
Yeah. I mean eventually uh Babylon is also uh judged, as is Assyria. Um but before their they receive their proper judgment, they’re used as a vessel, which seems like they’re winning.

Matt • 32:38
Yeah. And you know it’s interesting, we we kinda moved past one though, but there was one thing back in chapter twelve that I wanted to call attention to in chapter 12, I think it’s verse 1, where um Jeremiah asks, why does the way of the wicked prosper? So let’s assume that we’re we have these choices in front of us, choose life, choose death. Well, the people who keep choosing death are the people who keep doing what you say not to do, Yahweh. um, you know, our enemies, they seem to have it pretty good. They’re prospering, they’re they’re wealthy, they have influence, they have military victories. Feels like maybe the first time we’ve seen somebody ask that question in our text. I mean, I know it pops up in Psalms, so we would have seen it there. Job spends a lot of time asking this question, but we haven’t read Job’s yet, uh Job yet in our plans. So it’s an interesting and the and of course of course God doesn’t directly answer the question. God doesn’t say, oh, here’s my thinking with this. He he basically just says, like, I’m gonna take care of Babylon. I know it looks that way. I know it might look like things are prospering. Um But I’m gonna take care of those people. I’m using them for my purposes, but don’t don’t be deceived here. And I I could see that being a tough word for Jeremiah to accept. Uh yeah, because I think it’s an honest question that he’s asking

Hannah • 33:57
So Yeah, totally. Yeah, and one that a lot of biblical authors ask.

Matt • 34:02
Yeah, and I think one that we ask even now, right? Sort of going back to our conversation before about You know, it’s so normal. You know, sin can become just so normal and regular to us. Um That the the yeah, my friend David uh uh French wrote in the New York Times a few weeks ago. He wrote an article about um Uh uh it was riffing on an article that had been in the Atlantic about uh the propensity of uh like the rise of online gambling. Um and it’s called the the article on the Atlantic is my year as a degenerate gambler. And this guy was actually from a Mormon family, spent a year bankrolled by his company. And he downloaded like all these gambling apps and he’s just like fanatically gambling everything. I think this company staked him to like fifty thousand dollars. Uh for him to gamble. I don’t know. It’s in the article. Um but uh and he lost it all because of of course he did. Um but he was talking about like how if you watch a sporting event on the weekend, like every other ad is for one of these companies. And he even cites uh um in the article that more than uh about half of men age eighteen to forty-nine um use an online gambling app, um, which is just crazy. Like You just it’s unimaginable even 25 years ago. Just because gambling’s associated with like just lots of bad things like losing your money and addiction and bankruptcy and lawsuits and bad, bad health outcomes. And so David was writing in his his article about how it’s interesting because in our culture we’ve made it very easy to do uh to pursue vices. So gambling, pornography, these things are readily accessed on our phones. We can have them anytime we want. But it’s actually pretty hard to do virtuous things. Um so like it’s very s it’s a big effort to do things like go to college, start a business. So the things that actually sort of build good habits and character in our lives are hard to do. The things that can erode them are super easy to get into. Um and so I was thinking about this as Jeremiah was asking his question. He’s like, the this is the the wind’s blowing a weird direction here. Um you know it would seem Yeah, let what he’s I think he’s asking the question here, like it’s really hard to be faithful to God. It’s just really hard. Um, why is it so hard? Why do you make it so hard? to uh for us to follow you so faithfully. And um yeah, I’m blessed to have the example of the the people from Nepal and some others. But I I don’t know. I’ve I’ve I’ve lost some sleep over these questions the last couple weeks, Hannah. Yeah, it’s hard. It’s hard to follow Jesus. Yeah.

Hannah • 36:43
Yeah.

Matt • 36:45
But as they also say in uh in a league of their own, the heart is what makes it good.

Hannah • 36:53
Is that a sport movie?

Matt • 36:55
That is a sports movie. Women’s baseball. Rockford, Illinois. Come on, hometown for you.

Hannah • 36:59
Hmm

Matt • 37:01
Close enough. Home state, home province, somewhere there. Uh okay, so uh keeping the tree theme going, chapter twenty-three Chapter 23, the Righteous Branch. So we got all these, we got lots of language about trees. We got trees turning into idols. That’s bad. But then Jeremiah calls out and says, Okay, it looks like things are falling apart. It looks like this tree is falling over, um, but there’s gonna be a righteous branch. that grows out of the tree, and that’s gonna be my survey. And also riffing a little bit on Isaiah. I’m not sure he would have known about Isaiah’s writings, but riffing a little bit on Isaiah. So this righteous branch, you know, you think the trees not happening but but God is still working, he’s still moving. So I I love that imagery

Hannah • 37:52
Yeah. Yeah, he he might have been familiar with Isaiah’s teachings through the oral tradition. Um Isaiah was a prophet before Jeremiah. Um, so it’s possible because yeah, he he uses very similar language, um, the righteous branch. being the the promised offspring of David who would be a king. And um I like that it says he shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.

Matt • 38:22
Yeah. And in his days, Judah will be saved and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called. The Lord is our righteousness. Yeah, so I love that. Even though the tree looks like it’s rotten, fallen apart, no good for anything God’s going to bring new life out of it. And of course we know that that happens in the person of Jesus. That’s alluded to, uh, the son of David here. And we we know that that happens in the person of Jesus. So even in this terribly heavy, distressing, depressing book. There’s still these moments of hope that sort of shoot up um like like uh like new plants new growth out of uh out of dying plants

Hannah • 39:06
Yeah. Yeah.

Matt • 39:09
A lot of trees in Jeremiah.

Hannah • 39:12
In the whole Bible.

Matt • 39:14
Well, yeah.

Hannah • 39:15
Yeah.

Matt • 39:17
Yeah. All right, and then chapter twenty-five. I think we’re gonna talk to you mentioned before chapter twenty-five is a little bit of a pivot. chapter and so this will sort of uh shine a light on some themes that I think we want to talk about in more detail in the next episode. But tell us a little bit about what’s going on there.

Hannah • 39:35
Yeah, so the majority of um chapters one through twenty-four are accusing Israel or Judah and calling them out for their sin, their idolatry, their injustice. Um but then chapter twenty five is when Jeremiah gets very explicit that Babylon is gonna come and destroy Jerusalem and um that they will be in exile for seventy years. Uh which is interesting because Jeremiah previously also addresses some false prophets who are like falsely reassuring Judah, like, oh, it won’t be that long. He won’t be in exile that long. Yeah. Like it won’t be that bad. Don’t worry about it. So for 70 years Seventy is definitely a number of completion because it’s both seven and ten.

Matt • 40:26
Uh-huh.

Hannah • 40:27
Which are both uh complete numbers.

Matt • 40:30
I I feel like we talked about this with the Jubilee. Didn’t we? Because Israel never celebrated the Jubilee properly, and so there’s something about the the number of years that should have been the Jubilee is somehow wrapped into that number.

Hannah • 40:45
Yeah, it might be the total combined between the Assyrian and the Babylonian exiles. I’m not sure.

Matt • 40:51
All right. Well we’ll double check and we’ll we’ll talk about this with more Veracity next next time. So yeah. Right. But there’s definitely there’s definitely something happening with like the number and the timing and the the totality of it. Like there’s definitely something happening there.

Hannah • 41:07
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we’ll talk uh probably in depth next week about the theme of exile and um because there’s several chapters that are talking about Judah being in exile and how they’re supposed to live while they’re in Babylon.

Matt • 41:22
Yeah. Yeah. Exile and uh Pastor Matthew and I have actually talked about this. The exile is a huge, huge theme in the Bible and feels undertaught. Yeah. And yet there’s so much of New Testament that we can’t really understand. We can’t see what’s going on unless we really have some basics around the theme of exile. So I’m looking forward to learning more about that and talking about that because I think that will open our eyes even more so to some of the themes and rich topics in the Bible and and help us see ourselves more. And The more we understand ourselves and uh our position in God, the more beautiful it makes the work of Jesus. And so looking forward to that conversation.

Hannah • 42:00
Cool.

Matt • 42:01
Uh anything else we wanna go back from uh for Jeremiah here?

Hannah • 42:06
Hmm. I don’t think I have anything else.

Matt • 42:08
Do they did they say this in meetings that you go to? I’ve noticed this in meetings I’ve been a part of. Like they’ll use the at the phrase at the end of it.

Hannah • 42:14
Any alibis? Oh yeah. Alibis or last rounds.

Matt • 42:19
I but I don’t understand what Alima Alibi is doing there.

Hannah • 42:21
Yeah, no, me either.

Matt • 42:23
Okay. Yeah. We gotta work that we’re gonna work that out. So I’m not asking you if you have any alibis. That’s a dumb question. You need to stop asking that question, people. Uh but yeah, any any leftovers? Anything we didn’t address.

Hannah • 42:35
Oh, I mean probably, but yeah. There oh uh there is a lot of listen shema language in chapter seven.

Matt • 42:46
Oh Okay.

Hannah • 42:47
I’m sure I’m sure the people noticed it.

Matt • 42:50
I bet they did.

Hannah • 42:54
I really hope it repeated Shema seven times. That would be great.

Matt • 42:57
Oh my goodness. Uh what are we at here? Alright, we should we probably should not, but this’ll be your homework. How about this? We’ll give uh if you listen to this on the podcast and you come up to me with church in church this Sunday with the correct number of listens in scripture, I will give you a Starbucks gift card.

Hannah • 43:15
Okay, now is this based on the Hebrew or Well I can’t read Hebrew, so you’d have to be the judge if we’re good doing that.

Matt • 43:22
And I don’t know how ready access the people have to Hebrew.

Hannah • 43:26
Uh yeah. Just go to stepbible. net. I think it’s net or org. That’s how uh that’s how you can Org, stepbible. org. Hover over the words and it tells you what the Hebrew. So you’re looking for Shema.

Matt • 43:42
Shema. Okay, there you go, people. There’s your challenge. If you meet the challenge, Matt will buy you a Starbucks gift card.

Hannah • 43:49
How’s it? Wow.

Matt • 43:50
I know, I’m feeling generous.

Hannah • 43:52
Wow. I’m surprised you’re advocating for Starbucks when we keep talking about bougie coffee over here.

Matt • 43:57
I wore the green apron. I you know, you can get it I’m not saying it’s the end all be all, but you can get a good cup of coffee at Starbucks. All right. We’ll save that for the other podcasts.

Hannah • 44:09
Yeah, we will not ask Starbucks to sponsor our podcast.

Matt • 44:12
Oh. I actually had to go there today. I actually went to the Starbucks that I used to work in and I was feeling all nostalgic. It was feeling good. So I’m gonna I’m next week on the podcast I’m gonna wear my green apron. Okay, that’s enough. We’re we’re going nuts here. So thank you everyone for hanging out with us. Thank you so much for reading the Bible with us as we’ve seen. It is uh it’s messy and weird and challenging and sobering, um, but there’s so much life in it, and you all have been so faithful with your questions and contributions, and we love it. We love being on this journey with you. So thank you. And I trust that the Lord is going to bless this as we keep reading his word and seeking out his character and learning how to pray and learning how to follow him. So thank you all for doing this with us. We really, really, really appreciate it. It’s been fun. So

Hannah • 45:01
Hannah, why don’t you pray for us? Yeah. Lord, we just thank you so much for your word and its beauty And it’s wisdom and its truth in the way that it reveals who you are and what your purposes are and who your son is We thank you for this reading that we’ve been in this week with Jeremiah. Lord, I pray that We wouldn’t just be so quick to judge Israel and critique them of how easily they can fall away from you and how easily they fell into idolatry and injustice, um, even though they were your chosen people. Lord, but that we would see that as a mirror to our own uh wanderings, our our own um tendencies to waver and to um fall so easily back into old habits and patterns of sin, even when we continue to practice uh spiritual uh rhythms and practices, we go to church, Lord, uh show us and remind us that that is not what being a follower of Jesus is, but Um, listening to your voice and um doing what you think is good, what you see is good, and what you teach Through your word, I pray that you would just continue to fill us with your spirit to understand and discern your wisdom so that we know what that path of life looks like for us. And so we just praise you for revealing those things to us, for giving us your spirit and giving us your son that we can emulate and um as a as a perfect example for us. So we lift all of this up in the name of Jesus. Amen.

Matt • 46:51
Amen. Thank you, Hannah.

Hannah • 46:52
Thank you.

Matt • 46:53
All right. See you all next time.